BRHSlister:
With some much talk about IC and NP swapping cars, I thought some of you
might find this digest of some interest.
Ed DeRouin
----------
> From: PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com
> Reply-To: PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 10 May 2001 13:18:29 -0000
> To: PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PCL] Digest Number 226
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> PassengerCarList-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 14 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: foreign cars on the "Panama" (was: 11BR cars in use on NP's NCL)
> From: Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@m...>
> 2. Re: foreign cars on the "Panama" (was: 11BR cars in use on NP's NCL)
> From: "Joseph Oates" <jlosal@m...>
> 3. Re:IC/NP exchange of cars.
> From: Denny Anspach <danspach@m...>
> 4. Re: Re:IC/NP exchange of cars.
> From: "Denis Blake" <dblake3@c...>
> 5. ICRR 11BR Car Help
> From: Ed DeRouin <PIXELS@A...>
> 6. Re: Rivarossi Passenger Car Models--A request to the List
> From: "Rick D" <nkp779@h...>
> 7. trucks
> From: "Joseph Oates" <jlosal@m...>
> 8. Re: Rivarossi Passenger Car Models--A request to the List
> From: "Joseph Oates" <jlosal@m...>
> 9. Re: Rivarossi Passenger Car Models--A request to the List
> From: "Chuck Friedlein" <ironhorse@s...>
> 10. Re: Rivarossi Passenger Car Models--A request to the List
> From: "Chuck Friedlein" <ironhorse@s...>
> 11. Help ID Lambert HW RPO
> From: jabutler@s...
> 12. Re: Help ID Lambert HW RPO
> From: "S. Lerche'" <stefan@s...>
> 13. Re: Re:IC/NP exchange of cars.
> From: ROscaler@c...
> 14. Re: Re:IC/NP exchange of cars.
> From: "Denis Blake" <dblake3@c...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:19:17 -0500
> From: Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@m...>
> Subject: Re: foreign cars on the "Panama" (was: 11BR cars in use on NP's NCL)
>
> I remember seeing both Northern Pacific and Erie-Lackawanna sleepers on the
> IC's "Panama Limited" in the early 1960s. They were always repainted in IC
> chocolate and orange with imitation gold lettering and striping. Like all
> "Panama" sleepers they carried the word "PULLMAN" in large letters on the
> center of the letter board, but had the owner's reporting marks in smaller
> letters at the end. There was a note of irony one season when NP dome
> sleepers were assigned to trains 5 and 6, because the IC painted "PULLMAN"
> on these Budd-built cars.
>
> so long,
>
> Andy
>
>
> Andy Sperandeo
> Editor
> MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
> P.O. Box 1612
> Waukesha, WI 53187
>
> Phone: 262-796-8776, ext. 461
> Fax: 262-796-1142
> e-mail: asperandeo@m...
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:22:14 -0400
> From: "Joseph Oates" <jlosal@m...>
> Subject: Re: foreign cars on the "Panama" (was: 11BR cars in use on NP's NCL)
>
> IC was pretty much of a purist,especially on its top trains.When the NP
> domes were used on the "City of Miami" they were painted in IC colors.CNW
> cars were also used as noted in Andys message.
> Never saw any EL cars,that I recall in Florida.My mind also tells me they
> used
> an exMP dome-coach painted in IC colors,with the front windows and half of
> the dome roof painted over.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@m...>
> To: <PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 10:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [PCL] foreign cars on the "Panama" (was: 11BR cars in use on
> NP's NCL)
>
>
>> I remember seeing both Northern Pacific and Erie-Lackawanna sleepers on
> the
>> IC's "Panama Limited" in the early 1960s. They were always repainted in
> IC
>> chocolate and orange with imitation gold lettering and striping. Like all
>> "Panama" sleepers they carried the word "PULLMAN" in large letters on the
>> center of the letter board, but had the owner's reporting marks in smaller
>> letters at the end. There was a note of irony one season when NP dome
>> sleepers were assigned to trains 5 and 6, because the IC painted "PULLMAN"
>> on these Budd-built cars.
>>
>> so long,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>> Andy Sperandeo
>> Editor
>> MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
>> P.O. Box 1612
>> Waukesha, WI 53187
>>
>> Phone: 262-796-8776, ext. 461
>> Fax: 262-796-1142
>> e-mail: asperandeo@m...
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> PassengerCarList-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 09:26:57 -0700
> From: Denny Anspach <danspach@m...>
> Subject: Re:IC/NP exchange of cars.
>
> The exchange of cars between the IC and the NP has always interested
> me. Wayne Johnson , the president of the IC was famously proud of
> their passenger service, and was reportedly insistent that all of the
> assigned cars on their trains be painted in matching IC colors,
> whether the cars were in fact IC or owned by others. This fact was
> always a draw when one wandered down to take photos in and around
> Central Station (Chicago), where heavy weight cars (in particular)
> lettered and owned by
> CofG and ACL were in fact painted in IC colors. There were probably
> others (Wof A?) as well, that I cannot recall.
>
> Well, it has always astounded me that Johnson insisted that each
> season that the green NP sleeper domes would in fact be repainted in
> IC colors, and then at the end of the season prior to returning to
> the NP, the cars were again repainted in green. How many times did
> this livery-swapping occur, and did the IC strip the cars each time
> (in the trivia category, was this the only time the IC shops worked
> on Budd-built cars)?.
>
> In September 1962, I spent a wonderful morning wandering through the
> Seattle coach yards, taking passenger car photos to my heart's
> content. Because of the Seattle World's Fair, the passenger business
> was good, and the yard was full of interesting cars, among which were
> a number of IC sleepers in IC livery coupled to NP strings. My
> particular curiosity at the time was the side-to-side comparisons of
> the orange/brown IC cars with the orange/green GN equipment.
>
> Much earlier the same morning was the single instance in my life when
> I have been tossed out of railroad facility when taking photos. I
> almost always used to wear a coat and tie, as I did that day. I
> entered the Milwaukee electric shops facility property in Tacoma and
> took a number of slides of boxcabs, rotary plows, etc. sitting in the
> morning foggy gloom. Out came an irate white hat, and during the
> yelling process, he presumed that I was a "suit" (i.e. attorney)
> taking photos for some legal action. I simply backed off with
> argument or comment (I already had my photos).
>
> On the tenuous thread of the IC passenger shops (Woodward?), they
> reportedly did wonderful work. The McCloud Railroad has three (four)
> of the former heavyweight IC cars that were a part of the "Purple
> Martin" collection at Atlantic, IA. Jeff Forbis, Pres. of McCloud has
> commented to me a number of times of how beautifully maintained and
> improved over the years those cars had been by the IC, the only
> deterioration being that experience being in open storage in
> Illinois, and then Iowa. The IC had replaced all of the steps
> (notorious rust/corrosion sinks) with identical steps made of
> stainless steel. All the top equalized trucks have modern roller
> bearings.
>
> Denny
>
> Denny S. Anspach, MD
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:19:33 -0400
> From: "Denis Blake" <dblake3@c...>
> Subject: Re: Re:IC/NP exchange of cars.
>
> Not only were there acl cars painted in IC colors there were also Seaboard
> Air Line cars and Florida East Coast cars as well. The SAL purchased the
> cars from the FEC when the FEC exited the passenger business with the strike
> against them. I have a photo of a SAL car in IC colors. If anyone is
> interested in a scan of it please let me know and I will see what I can do.
>
> Denis F. Blake
> Columbus, OH
> TTHOTS
>
> Visit my photopoint site
>
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1621389&f=0
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@m...>
> To: <PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 12:26 PM
> Subject: [PCL] Re:IC/NP exchange of cars.
>
>
>> The exchange of cars between the IC and the NP has always interested
>> me. Wayne Johnson , the president of the IC was famously proud of
>> their passenger service, and was reportedly insistent that all of the
>> assigned cars on their trains be painted in matching IC colors,
>> whether the cars were in fact IC or owned by others. This fact was
>> always a draw when one wandered down to take photos in and around
>> Central Station (Chicago), where heavy weight cars (in particular)
>> lettered and owned by
>> CofG and ACL were in fact painted in IC colors. There were probably
>> others (Wof A?) as well, that I cannot recall.
>>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 11:43:23 -0500
> From: Ed DeRouin <PIXELS@A...>
> Subject: ICRR 11BR Car Help
>
> Tom and Tim:
>
> Thank you for your rapid reply. I have forwarded your response to BRHSlist.
>
> Ed DeRouin
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 19:54:55 -0000
> From: "Rick D" <nkp779@h...>
> Subject: Re: Rivarossi Passenger Car Models--A request to the List
>
> Chuck,
> I was going back through some of my email and Would like to help you out I
> hope. I have some of the older River/Ahm Cars I'll look through them and get
> back to you most of which I do not have the boxes but I'll try to find out
> what I can by looking on the bottoms or whever I can to find #'s and tell
> you the car names and # on the cars of which R.R. most are B&O and Pensy I
> think. I do have a Martha Washington that is a B&O car.
> I'll get back to ASAP.
> Rick Davis
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 16:07:19 -0400
> From: "Joseph Oates" <jlosal@m...>
> Subject: trucks
>
> Are there any HO 41DN trucks out there?
>
>
> PS Don Valentine,please contact me off list.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 16:14:17 -0400
> From: "Joseph Oates" <jlosal@m...>
> Subject: Re: Rivarossi Passenger Car Models--A request to the List
>
> I don't know who Chuck is,but I am looking for some of those cars also.
>
> J.Oates
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rick D <nkp779@h...>
> To: <PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [PCL] Rivarossi Passenger Car Models--A request to the List
>
>
>> Chuck,
>> I was going back through some of my email and Would like to help you out I
>> hope. I have some of the older River/Ahm Cars I'll look through them and
> get
>> back to you most of which I do not have the boxes but I'll try to find out
>> what I can by looking on the bottoms or whever I can to find #'s and tell
>> you the car names and # on the cars of which R.R. most are B&O and Pensy I
>> think. I do have a Martha Washington that is a B&O car.
>> I'll get back to ASAP.
>> Rick Davis
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> PassengerCarList-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:9:21 -0700
> From: "Chuck Friedlein" <ironhorse@s...>
> Subject: Re: Rivarossi Passenger Car Models--A request to the List
>
>
> Rick,
>
> Thanks for the offer of help in identifying some of these cars. When
> I didn't get any replies to my original post on the subject, I thought there
> wasn't any interest, so I haven't gotten around to putting the stuff into the
> computer yet. I can start on that shortly--working on a short notice
> project just now--and will start with the PRR and B O cars. I'm still
> trying to figure out the best way to set up such a list in EXCEL format so it
> can be sorted easily by "whatever".
>
>
>
> I have since learned that MARTHA WASHINGTON was the (incorrect) name
> originally put on the IHC Budd grill/diner in PRR Congressional/Senator
> colors--these cars should only have numbers. The same name also appears on
> the B O heavyweight National Limited cars, SKU 6511. These cars never
> had any changes made to them or any of the eight cars within that "set"
>
>
> --- Chuck Friedlein
>
> --- ironhorse@s...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Rick D
>
> To: PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: 5/9/2001 12:55:22 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [PCL] Rivarossi Passenger Car
> Models--A request to the List
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck,
>
> I was going back through some of my email and Would like to help you out I
>
>
> hope. I have some of the older River/Ahm Cars I'll look through them and
> get
>
> back to you most of which I do not have the boxes but I'll try to find out
>
>
> what I can by looking on the bottoms or whever I can to find #'s and tell
>
>
> you the car names and # on the cars of which R.R. most are B O and
> Pensy I
>
> think. I do have a Martha Washington that is a B O car.
>
> I'll get back to ASAP.
>
> Rick Davis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:17:35 -0700
> From: "Chuck Friedlein" <ironhorse@s...>
> Subject: Re: Rivarossi Passenger Car Models--A request to the List
>
>
> Joseph,
>
> I'm the person who used to work for IHC from Aug. 1990 to Nov 1993 and made
> changes, corrections, and additions to some, but not all the
> IHC/Rivarossi passenger cars.
>
> I've proposed to the list, but didn't get any responses in interest, the
> idea of trying to complete my records of the original names and numbers
> applied
> to the AHM/Rivarossi/IHC heavyweight, lightweight, and Budd passenger
> cars. In turn I'd make available to those who requested a copy, the
> complete list that would include those originals (updated to the point of the
> request) and the new names/numbers I did the work for, though some were never
> produced. In this way I can also learn which of those were in fact
> produced.
>
>
> --- Chuck Friedlein
>
> --- ironhorse@s...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Joseph Oates
>
>
> To: PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: 5/9/2001 1:14:09 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [PCL] Rivarossi Passenger Car
> Models--A request to the List
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't know who Chuck is,but I am looking for some of those cars
> also.
>
>
>
> J.Oates
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:11:33 -0000
> From: jabutler@s...
> Subject: Help ID Lambert HW RPO
>
> I have a Lambert heavyweight baggage/RPO with 5 windows on each
> side. The box is marked 857 Baggage/Mail. Does anyone on the list
> know what prototype this car is modeled after? Thanks in advance.
> Jim Butler
> www.sa-com.org
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 18:50:49 -0700
> From: "S. Lerche'" <stefan@s...>
> Subject: Re: Help ID Lambert HW RPO
>
> At 01:11 AM 5/10/2001 -0000, you wrote:
>> I have a Lambert heavyweight baggage/RPO with 5 windows on each
>> side. The box is marked 857 Baggage/Mail. Does anyone on the list
>> know what prototype this car is modeled after?
> Jim,
> I think a few more specifics would be good....ie: clerestory roof vs round
> like Harriman types? What length? where are the windows in relation to the
> doors? How many doors? Vestibule end or none?
> __________________
> Stefan Lerche'
> Duncan, BC, Canada
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:20:28 EDT
> From: ROscaler@c...
> Subject: Re: Re:IC/NP exchange of cars.
>
> Denny
> The WofA (Western Railway of Alabama) was not aparty to any of the IC routes.
> Therefore they did not have any cars painted in IC colors as did the ACL ,Cof
> G, and the FEC.
> Ron Dettmer
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:20:43 -0400
> From: "Denis Blake" <dblake3@c...>
> Subject: Re: Re:IC/NP exchange of cars.
>
> Ron
>
> You forgot to mention the Seaboard cars that were painted in the IC's
> colors. These were former FEC cars that the SAL purchased after the FEC,
> for the most part, exited the passenger business.
>
> Denis F. Blake
> Columbus, OH
> TTHOTS
>
> Visit my photopoint site
>
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1621389&f=0
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ROscaler@c...>
> To: <PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 7:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [PCL] Re:IC/NP exchange of cars.
>
>
>> Denny
>> The WofA (Western Railway of Alabama) was not aparty to any of the IC
> routes.
>> Therefore they did not have any cars painted in IC colors as did the ACL
> ,Cof
>> G, and the FEC.
>> Ron Dettmer
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> PassengerCarList-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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