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Re: [CBQ] Western Star as separate train between Chicago and St. Paul

from [Jim G] [Permanent Link][Original]
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Western Star as separate train between Chicago and St. Paul
From: "Jim G" <G4Trains@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 09:20:33 -0600
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TO Mr Meyer:  Is your link for the Nov 54 TT actually the Aug TT?  Jim Gattis

On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 9:10 PM Mark Meyer via groups.io <VerMontanan=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 05:31 PM, Randal O'Toole wrote:
According to 1949, 1951, and later Burlington timetables, the postwar Oriental Limited and its 1951 replacement the Western Star were always part of the Blackhawk between Chicago and St. Paul. As I interpret the timetables, the Blackhawk had sleepers, coaches, and a diner-lounge that went to Minneapolis.
Not true for the Western Star.  When inaugurated in June of 1951, the train operated separately between Chicago and St. Paul until 1953 or 1954, but of course there is no guarantee that service could be different during the months in between.

These SP&S public timetables pretty much tell the story, even the Chicago-St. Paul part:

January 1953: https://wx4.org/to/foam/maps/2-Perry/025/1953-01-11SP%26S_SystemPTT-Perry.pdf
Take a look at the equipment listing for the Western Star.  Says CB&Q trains 53 and 54.  The timetable shows both the CB&Q-GN and CB&Q-NP trains between Chicago and Spokane and indicates CB&Q trains 47 and 48 (the Black Hawk) running on a different schedule than trains 53 and 54.  

October 1953: https://wx4.org/to/foam/maps/2-Perry/025/1953-10-18SP%26S_SystemPTT-Perry.pdf
Pretty much the same as January.

August 1954: https://wx4.org/to/foam/maps/2-Perry/025/1954-08-01SP%26S_SystemPTT-Perry.pdf
Same as the 1953 timetables.

November 1954: https://wx4.org/to/foam/maps/2-Perry/025/1954-08-01SP%26S_SystemPTT-Perry.pdf
Now shows the Western Star as CB&Q trains 47 and 48 between Chicago and St. Paul.

In all these cases, the Mainstreeter between Chicago and St. Paul is shown as CB&Q trains 47 and 48, the Black Hawk.

--Mark Meyer

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