I’m using Pullman green in a generic context, because that’s how the relevant paints are labeled. Until Tru Color comes out with CB&Q Passenger Car Green, that’s all you have to work with unless you make a custom mix.
Nelson Moyer
From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Charlie Vlk
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2022 2:38 PM
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Havelock Economy Streamline Baggage Car Color?
Nelson and All-
The issue on the table is not “Pullman Green”…..under discussion is the green color CB&Q passenger equipment was painted.
In my memory (which admittedly could be off-base) the color on Burlington equipment contrasted with any cars painted “Pullman Green”. Not much different than the situation
on the SP where their green was a different shade known, at least by Model Railroaders, as “Olive Green” AFAIK.
L&P diagrams for passenger cars should show the paint specs but a set of drift cards would be valuable for getting to a proper model paint for importers and modelers to use as
a reference or at least a starting point.
It would be best to get authoritative references (original railroad sources and resident experts) before making recommendations as to the proper references for color, especially
for a production model.
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources
BRHS #24
PS- I forgot to mention another caution for using Drift Cards as the final authority for getting model colors correct. The paint reference for AT&SF “Warbonnet Red” units
is the same Red specified for GM&O/Alton units. They do not appear to be the same color, how can this be?
The answer is sequence of application of the various colors and finishing coats applied over the completed colors. This impacts the apparent color of a paint…even the primers
used can shift colors dramatically. All this just for painting a prototype size unit to be viewed outdoors in full sunlight.
Models of different scales typically viewed under a wide range of light intensity and sources further complicate the issue.
The ‘proper’ color of Pullman green paint has been the subject of uncountable threads on several groups, and there is no consensus. Part of the reason is that Pullman green changed over the years, even at Pullman. It started out with brown
tinge, then moved to olive, then to darker green. After the passenger car business was broken up, railroads used their own version of Pullman green, hence the note that CB&Q Pullman green tended toward yellow.
Pullman green model paints range from dark green to brownish green, with several shades in between. None are alike. I made color ships using Floquil, Poly Scale, Model Flex, Scalecoat I and Scalecoat II. Tru Color wasn’t available then.
I took the attached photo of the color chips under 5000K lights, and you can see the difference. Scalecoat I is darkest and Poly Scale is the lightest. Floquil and Poly Scale aren’t made any longer, but can be found if that is your choice.
The models in the photo are two scratchbuilt BA-19A Havelock economy baggage cars. The one on the left was built with styrene and painted with Floquil. The one on the right was built with wood and painted with poly Scale. I also attached
an XM-33 express boxcar painted with Scalecoat II.
Paint fade and weathering are other issues that change paint colors over time, so base color becomes less important if you wish to fade and weather your model. I think Floquil was a good representation of Burlington Pullman green. Poly
Scale was too yellow, and Tru Color is too brown. Among available paints, use Scalecoat II if you paint with organic solvent based paints and Model Flex if you prefer acrylics.
Nelson Moyer
What is the official green used and is there a current model paint available to match. Per a quick scan of bulletin #36 it is more yellow than Pullman green. What would we suggest to a model train company to use to get the proper color match?
thank you,
Brian Durham
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