Re: [CBQ] RPO storage mail for Chicago leg of Builder?

["Bill Schultz via groups.io" <jwschultz9=aol.com@groups.io>]

Marty --

Beginning September 30, 1960, the eastbound Builder and North Coast were consolidated east of St. Paul in the "off season" (mid-September to mid-December; January 3 to May 31).  Westbound, the Builder and Afternoon Zephyr were consolidated east of St. Paul.  The trains were separated during below-zero temperatures or, in the case of Nos. 26 and 32, when the combined train could not depart St. Paul within 30 minutes of each train's arrival.  The motors arriving in St. Paul on No. 25 were relayed to No. 23, then returned from Minneapolis the following day with No. 22, while the motors arriving in St. Paul with Nos. 23-31 returned to Chicago with Nos. 26-32. 

This pattern continued until October 30, 1966, when the westbound Builder and North Coast were consolidated.  At that time, operation of the GN baggage-dormitory and NP mail-dormitory cars was discontinued east of St. Paul, as was operation of the GN Ranch and NP Traveler's Rest buffet-lounge cars during the off-season.  Effective October 29, 1967, the eastbound Morning Zephyr and westbound Afternoon Zephyr (coaches, but no dining, lounge, or parlor cars) were added to the combined GN-NP trains.  The Afternoon Zephyr resumed independent operation on Fridays and Sundays effective March 8, 1968.  

Initially, consolidated Nos. 26-32 was held to 18 cars, requiring the GN baggage car, NP water-baggage car, and both GN and NP flat-top chair cars to be handled east of St. Paul in either the Morning Zephyr or Black Hawk.  There were subsequent variations to that protocol that resulted in the NP water-baggage car handled in No. 26-32 and the GN baggage and both GN and NP coaches handled in No. 22.  After 1959's summertime high-season, GN's bullet-end Coulee-series sleeper-observations ran seasonally from June through early September (but never in the consolidated train) and were retired at the conclusion of 1966's summer high-season.  NP's mail-dormitory cars were not operated east of St. Paul from January 1962 until February 1964 as the result of several derailments on NP.  The NP bullet-end sleeper-lounge observations were permanently removed from the NCL after the December '66-early January '67 winter high season.  Following 1969's summertime high-season, NP replaced its diner with a Traveler's Rest car east of St. Paul during the off-season.  In addition, both GN and NP rearranged the consist order of their respective trains several times throughout the decade of consolidated operation.

As to the operation of Chicago-St. Paul mail cars, Silver Page and Silver Post ran westbound on the NCL and eastbound on the EB daily-except-Monday until February 24, 1960, when the eastbound car moved to the Afternoon Zephyr.  They were discontinued September 2, 1967.  To avoid delaying No. 24 in St. Paul, the westbound Black Hawk moved the empty car from St. Paul to Minneapolis where it was added to No. 24's consist at the Q's Minneapolis coach yard.  I've been unable to determine the date that these two cars were assigned to Nos. 25 and 32, but it appears that occurred circa 1955-1957.  Following the November 1966 consolidation of the westbound EB and NCL, the train carried a sealed car of St. Louis-GM&O-Chicago-Q-St. Paul preferential mail (rerouted following the discontinuance of the former Q-Rock Island Zephyr-Rocket, and initially carried by No. 25) variously using Q Havelock or GM&O's ex-Delaware & Hudson lightweight baggage cars.  (The east/south-bound car was carried in the Black Hawk.)  The westbound car moved to the Black Hawk following the three-way EB-NCL-Twin Zephyr consolidation.  For several years ('65-'67), the post office rerouted the westbound Builder's Chicago-Spokane mail car from the Milwaukee to the Q during the first three weeks of December, presumably to advance additional holiday mail one day earlier than the Morning Hiawatha's schedule would provide.   

Beware that consists of the combined trains (and others) appearing in print between hard covers are, for the most part, highly fictionalized.

Representative consists:

Nos. 26-32, Tuesday December 4, 1962

9941A-9989B-9928B-9919B

NP 406

GN 264

GN 1203

GN 1320

Q 1243

GN 1328

GN 1376

GN 1251

GN 1392

SP&S 702

Q 1382

NP 327

NP 556

NP 588

Q 558

NP 495

NP 459

NP 367

NP 310

NP 393

Nos. 25-31, Wednesday November 2, 1966

9985A-9944B-9986A

Q Silver Page

NP 400

GN 271

Q 1331

GN 1321

GN 1383

GN 1251

Q 1395

GN 1264

NP 582

NP 549

NP 329

NP 371

NP 463

NP 378

NP 391

  

Bill Schultz

New Braunfels, Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: cprengineer via groups.io <cprengineer=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: CBQ@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2021 2:33 pm
Subject: Re: [CBQ] RPO storage mail for Chicago leg of Builder?

I'd like to run a combined EB/NCL in HO Scale.  I have the Walthers Empire Builder cars, a number of their NP-painted cars, and several Proto Q E's.  The info above on the Q RPO is helpful.  What years were these eastern connections run combined, and was it mostly seasonal or year-round?  What would have been a typical/representative consist for this train? 

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Marty Hintz

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