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All:
I think we can pretty well conclude that the car damaged by fire at Edwards, Ill., was the 9765. It and 9766 were originally identical, but changes were made that made the two cars slightly different in appearance. Air horns changed frequently -- both
type and location -- and thus don't make a good identifier. Both cars had the box behind the cab door. And both were used at various times on the Galesburg-Peoria train which was involved in the broken rail accident and fire. But only 9766 received the
pair of bolted-on rectangular hatches or access panels that appear on it in the attached image at Des Moines but not on the car damaged in the Edwards fire.
Also attached is a photo of the portion of 9766's body that was sold to the party in Gladstone, Ill., across the river from Burlington. It is significant that the fire-damaged front portion of the car was cut off and only the undamaged portion sold.
Knowing the frugality of the Q, it seems quite likely that the railroad determined that the fire-damaged portion was not repairable and began considering ways in which the undamaged rear two-thirds of the 8-year-old car could be returned to service. By this
time the railroad had pretty well settled on the baggage-RPO arrangement of 9765 as one of two ideal configurations, pulling a trailer
coach on runs where passenger volume was greater than could be accommodated in the other favored configuration: baggage-RPO-coach. When no practical method of using the remains of 9765 could be found (splicing it onto another wreck-damaged car would have
been a possibility, but virtually all the other wrecks of Q motor cars were collisions that damaged the front portion of the car -- the engine end -- same as the damage to 9765), so after two years the railroad decided to get rid of the remains, which no doubt
were sitting at West Burlington, and sold them to an individual just across the river. And there they remain today, as far as I know; I last saw them about five years ago. Interesting that the attached photo of the body was taken by David Wilson, the same
photographer who took the photo of the CZ obs car at Aurora that was inquired about on this list yesterday.
Hol
From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> on behalf of Rupert Gamlen <gamlenz@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 6:55 PM
To: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Motor cars
Bill
Thanks for your response and comments. Nolen Null (who brought these photos to my attention) and I hadn’t started to look at this in great detail other than to confirm that it wasn’t 9509 at Edwards, in spite of the similarity of dates. We were hoping that
someone already knew of the accident.
I don’t think this is 9625-9629 or 9665-9666 as there are no passengers windows in the side view. As well as 9729-9733, there were also baggage-mail cars 9724-9728, 9734-9735 and 9765-9773.
Looking at the photos and diagrams, I think the Edwards car may have been 9765. From what I can see, only the 400 h.p. units had the radiator “boxes” mounted on the roof which restricts it to 9734-9735 and 9765-9773. The first pair and 6767 -9773 had a series
of grab irons up to the roof situated behind the cab door, which are not present in the Edwards car, leaving just 9765 and 9766. In addition, in the side view photo, there is a small box mounted immediately behind the cab door and I can only find this replicated
on 9766, which was a sister to 9765. There is a photo of 9766 on page 116 of Burlington In Transition, and one ex eBay that I’ve attached.
9765 was shown as being scrapped in January 1939 and the body sold at Burlington, 20 months after the fire. This was just 8 years after it was built, which would suggest that something had happened to it to cause such an early retirement.
Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ
From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io>
On Behalf Of William Barber
Sent: Wednesday, 22 April 2020 3:07 am
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Motor cars
Several comments come to mind. The car appears to have been manufactured by EMC-Pullman. Based on the front end configuration, it also appears to be a car that has been converted to diesel from a gasoline engine. As gas engine cars, the radiator was mounted
in the area between the two outer front windows with a shutter arrangement over the front surface. When rebuilt to diesel, the radiator was moved to the cab roof, as shown in the photo, with the air intake immediately above the front windows. A new center
front window was added where the upper portion of the original radiator had been. As a diesel car, that makes the fire a little problematic. The cars were converted to diesel to reduce the possibility of fire. Diesel fuel does not ignite like gasoline and
usually requires an external spark for ignition. However, it is still possible that the fire occurred as described. It was my impression that the Q did not start converting motor cars to diesel until the 1940s, but possibly they started such work earlier.
Corbin, in B in T does not indicate when the diesel conversion began, but it has been my impression that it started after the 1943 head on collision of a gas-electric motor car with O1A mike 4961 at Oswego, IL.
As for the disposition of the car, it is not totally destroyed.The rear portion appears to be undamaged. It is possible that it was repaired and returned to service, particularly If this car had recently been converted to diesel,. Another possibility is that
it was converted to a trailer. This was done to several cars which were renumbered into the 3600 series. The car in the photo appears to be a passenger - mail or RPO configuration. If that is the case, the Q only had a few such cars. They were numbered 9625
- 9629 (originally 625 - 629) and 9665 - 9666 (originally 665 - 966). They also had five cars numbered 9729 - 9733 (originally 729 - 733) that Corbin lists as passenger - RPO. I don’t know the difference between passenger - mail and passenger - RPO unless
only the RPO cars had a regular RPO clerk on board and met U.S. Post Office secs for the postal compartment. The car in the photo has a mail hook at the second door, so I would conclude that it had a mail clerk on board, at least some of the time. Corbin does
not list any of the passenger - mail or passenger - RPO cars as bing converted to diesel, but I don’t know whether Mr. Corbin’s list is complete.
Motor cars
From: Rupert Gamlen
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 02:03:38 PDT
There are two photos on eBay of a motor car involved in a fire, at https://www.ebay.com/itm/Burned-Chicago-Burlington-Quincy-Rail-Car-Train-Photographs-5-17-1937/333579384819?hash=item4daae177f3:g:olcAAOSwqDhenKPG
The text on the back of the photos states that the motor car burned at Edwards, Illinois on May 17, 1937 after a piece of rail punctured the gas tank. The photos were apparently taken at Peoria Depot, and refer to Louis Bryant. A search of newspaper found three
pieces as attached. Needless to say the accounts don’t exactly match each other.
The original thought was that this was 9509 which was damaged in May 1937, but that was at Rockford when it collided with a truck on or about May 8. A photo of the resulting damage is on page 126 or Burlington In Transition. As well as the unlikelihood of the
unit being repaired in time to be wrecked again, 9509 was built by Brill and has a rounded front while the Edwards motor car has a flat front.
Has anyone any suggestions as to the identity of the Edwards motor car?
Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ
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CB&Q 9765, Peoria, Ill., 5-17-1937, after burning at Edwards, Ill., broken rail derailment #1.jpg
Description: CB&Q 9765, Peoria, Ill., 5-17-1937, after burning at Edwards, Ill., broken rail derailment #1.jpg
CB&Q 9765, Peoria, Ill., 5-17-1937, after burning at Edwards, Ill., broken rail derailment #2.jpg
Description: CB&Q 9765, Peoria, Ill., 5-17-1937, after burning at Edwards, Ill., broken rail derailment #2.jpg
CB&Q 9765, Galesburg, Ill., 1933, Hol Wagner coll..jpg
Description: CB&Q 9765, Galesburg, Ill., 1933, Hol Wagner coll..jpg
CB&Q 9765, Galesburg, Ill., c. 1937, John McCall coll..jpg
Description: CB&Q 9765, Galesburg, Ill., c. 1937, John McCall coll..jpg
CB&Q 9766, Galesburg, Ill., c. 1935, Hol Wagner coll..jpg
Description: CB&Q 9766, Galesburg, Ill., c. 1935, Hol Wagner coll..jpg
CB&Q 9766, Des Moines, Iowa, 7-14-1940, Corbin-Wagner coll..jpg
Description: CB&Q 9766, Des Moines, Iowa, 7-14-1940, Corbin-Wagner coll..jpg
CB&Q 9765, Gladstone, Ill., 10-3-2003, David Wilson photo.jpg
Description: CB&Q 9765, Gladstone, Ill., 10-3-2003, David Wilson photo.jpg
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