-----Original
Message-----
From: William Hirt
<whirt@fastmail.com>
To: CBQ
<CBQ@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Oct 29, 2018 9:01 am
Subject: Re: [CBQ] E-5 wreck
The Burlington Lines rulebook effective May
1, 1951 states:
"RESTRICTED SPEED - Proceed prepared to stop short of
train,
obstruction, or switch not properly lined and to look out
for broken rail.
REDUCED SPEED - Proceed prepared to stop short of train,
obstruction, or
anything that may require the speed of a train to be
reduced."
There is no definition what those speeds are in the
rulebook that I can
find.
I looked through the St. Joseph Division Employee
Timetables prior to
and after the wreck. There is no definition listed
defining Restricted
or Reduced speed in them.
This was ABS territory. Zephyr speed limits were 75 mph,
65 mph for
regular passenger trains and 50 mph for freights.
Bill Hirt
On 10/28/2018 5:20 PM, Winton wrote:
> In my 41 years as an engineer I saw lots of photos of
collisions at speeds under 20mph that resulted in terrific
damage. Locos on top of one another, cars jacknifed and on
top of one another. It all depends upon the speed and the
weight of the trains.
> According to the 'Railway Signalling and
Communications' article linked to above, the passenger
train entered the siding at 25mph on a Restricting signal
and had reduced to 5mph at the time they noticed the
freight was on the same track. The passenger's engine crew
bigholed it and abandoned ship. They stated that their
train was stopped before the collision. Speed of the
freight is not given.
> I do not have a CB&Q rulebook for 1960. I do have
a Consolidated Code rulebook for 1967. That book has the
Burlington signals in it. At that time a red over yellow
was a RESTRICTING signal but the indication for it (how
you were to operate) stated that you were to proceed at
REDUCED SPEED. Reduced Speed has _no_ speed limit
associated with it. Reduced Speed does _not_ require
operation at 20mph or less. I ran trains on former
CB&Q Alliance-Edgemont, Gillette-Sheridan-Huntley on
BN starting in 1974 and thus I ran at REDUCED Speed a lot.
If you could see a coupla miles ahead you could run at
49mph and still comply with REDUCED Speed rule.
>
> The article and my 1967 rulebook states that rule
105 says Trains using a siding must proceed at REDUCED
Speed.
> The article and my 1967 rulebook says that a red over
yellow signal is a "Restricting" signal and operation is
to be at REDUCED Speed.
> Therefore these 2 things allow the trains to operate
at REDUCED Speed and do not require operation at
RESTRICTED Speed.
> The speed limit diverging thru the turnouts was
listed as 30mph. Therefore under the above conditions the
trains could have been operating at 30mph in the siding
while they occupied the turnouts.
> IF the siding itself did not have a lower speed limit
on it then the trains could have legally accelerated after
their entire train was in the siding and off the 30mph
turnout _IF_ visibility allowed it. Obviously at night,
and with the curves, even the 30mph limit on the turnouts
would be excessive for Reduced Speed.
> However the article quotes a rule 530 as stating;
Controlled sidings are not protected by signals between
clearance points... trains must move at RESTRICTED Speed.
There is no rule 530 in my 1967 CCOR. So if the article is
correct, the rulebook in effect in 1960 at the time of the
wreck must be somewhat different. And if that rulebook has
a 20mph max limit for RESTRICTED Speed then both trains
should have been under 21mph. The passenger's engineer
stated, according to the article, that he entered the
siding at 25mph??
>
>
>
>