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Re: [CBQ] E-5 wreck

To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] E-5 wreck
From: "William Hirt" <whirt@fastmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 09:01:21 -0500
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The Burlington Lines rulebook effective May 1, 1951 states:

"RESTRICTED SPEED - Proceed prepared to stop short of train, obstruction, or switch not properly lined and to look out for broken rail.

REDUCED SPEED - Proceed prepared to stop short of train, obstruction, or anything that may require the speed of a train to be reduced."

There is no definition what those speeds are in the rulebook that I can find.

I looked through the St. Joseph Division Employee Timetables prior to and after the wreck. There is no definition listed defining Restricted or Reduced speed in them.

This was ABS territory. Zephyr speed limits were 75 mph, 65 mph for regular passenger trains and 50 mph for freights.

Bill Hirt


On 10/28/2018 5:20 PM, Winton wrote:
In my 41 years as an engineer I saw lots of photos of collisions at speeds 
under 20mph that resulted in terrific damage. Locos on top of one another, cars 
jacknifed and on top of one another. It all depends upon the speed and the 
weight of the trains.
According to the 'Railway Signalling and Communications' article linked to 
above, the passenger train entered the siding at 25mph on a Restricting signal 
and had reduced to 5mph at the time they noticed the freight was on the same 
track. The passenger's engine crew bigholed it and abandoned ship. They stated 
that their train was stopped before the collision. Speed of the freight is not 
given.
I do not have a CB&Q rulebook for 1960. I do have a Consolidated Code rulebook for 
1967. That book has the Burlington signals in it. At that time a red over yellow was a 
RESTRICTING signal but the indication for it (how you were to operate) stated that you 
were to proceed at REDUCED SPEED. Reduced Speed has _no_ speed limit associated with 
it. Reduced Speed does _not_ require operation at 20mph or less. I ran trains on former 
CB&Q Alliance-Edgemont, Gillette-Sheridan-Huntley on BN starting in 1974 and thus I 
ran at REDUCED Speed a lot. If you could see a coupla miles ahead you could run at 
49mph and still comply with REDUCED Speed rule.

The article and my 1967 rulebook  states that rule 105 says Trains using a 
siding must proceed at REDUCED Speed.
The article and my 1967 rulebook says that a red over yellow signal is a 
"Restricting" signal and operation is to be at REDUCED Speed.
Therefore these 2 things allow the trains to operate at REDUCED Speed and do 
not require operation at RESTRICTED Speed.
The speed limit diverging thru the turnouts was listed as 30mph. Therefore 
under the above conditions the trains could have been operating at 30mph in the 
siding while they occupied the turnouts.
IF the siding itself did not have a lower speed limit on it then the trains 
could have legally accelerated after their entire train was in the siding and 
off the 30mph turnout _IF_ visibility allowed it. Obviously at night, and with 
the curves, even the 30mph limit on the turnouts would be excessive for Reduced 
Speed.
However the article quotes a rule 530 as stating; Controlled sidings are not 
protected by signals between clearance points... trains must move at RESTRICTED 
Speed. There is no rule 530 in my 1967 CCOR. So if the article is correct, the 
rulebook in effect in 1960 at the time of the wreck must be somewhat different. 
And if that rulebook has a 20mph max limit for RESTRICTED Speed then both 
trains should have been under 21mph. The  passenger's engineer stated, 
according to the article, that he entered the siding at 25mph??






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