Re: [CBQ] Re: The Use of Class Lights on GP 7's and 9's

["David Weber dave@cimmarondesign.com [CBQ]" <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>]

 on the GM&O standard practice

On Jun 9, 2015, at 2:14 PM, Michael Woodruff mwoodruff54@gmail.com [CBQ] <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Granted, this was during the BN era, not CB&Q, but here are a couple of former Q SD7 displaying both white flags and white marker lights in 1972:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1419627

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1418816

msw

largofl

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com [CBQ] <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Key point...The words INSTEAD OF had to be used in any change of meeting point order.

Pete


-----Original Message-----
From: 'sartherdj@aol.com' sartherdj@aol.com [CBQ] <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2015 10:11 am
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: The Use of Class Lights on GP 7's and 9's

 

Thanks for the additional information about  what "run late orders",  "meet move orders" and  "right over orders" were.

 

Later,  Dave Sarther

 

 

-----Original Message----- 
From: qutlx1@aol.com [CBQ] <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> 
To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2015 7:54 am 
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: The Use of Class Lights on GP 7's and 9's 

 

Dave, 

Wheel reports were not used for passenger trains. The list of cars in the train would be in the Condrs booking book. It would show the train at the top of the page as #22,1st22,2nd22,etc. 

An example of run late order might say" No 48 runs 20 minutes late Savanna to Oregon". This allows meeting trains the extra time to clear vs TT. 

Right over example, no 48 has right over no.21 Aurora to Shabbona. This type of order could be used when normally the reverse right was granted by TT authority. 

A meet move order is probably the simplest but could also cause big problems if missed by a crew. For example the first order says 97 meet 48 at Big Rock. 97 take siding. Then after the trains are out on line someone falls down. A new order is issued. 97 meet 48 at Shabbona instead of  

Big Rock.  

Leo 

On Jun 9, 2015, at 9:34 AM, ' sartherdj@aol.com' sartherdj@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> wrote: 

 

Leo

  

Thanks for the added insight about the use of flags and class lights on the C&I.   Could you explain what "run late orders",  "meet move orders" and  "right over orders" were?  All of this info will add to my/our store of operating knowledge on the "Q". 

  

I wonder if anyone could/would share a CB&Q "wheel report"  that shows a train as being a "first section" or a "second section" of a train? 

  

Later,  Dave Sarther 

  

  

-----Original Message----- 
From: qutlx1@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> 
To: CBQ < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2015 6:58 am 
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: The Use of Class Lights on GP 7's and 9's 

 

Great explanations guys. And just to make life more complicated don't forget those run late orders, meet move orders, right over orders.  

As to the original question I can't say for sure if class lights were used in the 50s and 60s on the C&I. I would think they were as  there were many 2nd and third sections as well as passenger extras.  

Leo 

Sent from my iPad 

On Jun 9, 2015, at 8:28 AM, Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> wrote: 

 

Just a brief addition to what Doug has written which, by the way, is correct...Although not required I believe it would have been the practice to adivse, either by inclusion in a train order, or by message the engine number(s) of second or following sections so that there would be no doubt as to which trains following a 1st section "carrying the green" were indeed sections of that train.  Why would this be a good thing...Sometimes as was mentioned as an example during WW 2 and other times of heavy traffic a first section of another train of a schedule could get in between sections of a train running in two or more sections... 

Sound complicated????  Indeed it was...especially during WW 2 time trains were often operating with brand new firemen and brakemen and newly "set up" conductors and engineers....Read some of the old stories in RAILROAD MAGAZINE and see the "bundles" of train orders a crew would have to deal with...Trains with right  (not RIGHTS) over other trains or even right over just one section of a train running in multple sections. 

Another note "thrown in at no extra charge"  Trains carrying (green) signals for following sections were required to "Whistle signals" when they met another train..I believe the signal was  Two longs and one short....The train to which the signals were directed was required to answer with the usual  Two shorts...which was the basic acknowlegement of  "I see your signals and understand".  Also IIRC if a train to which the signals whistle was directed did not "answer" the the passing train was required to stop and straighten things out. 

Well, this is more than you asked about, or even, maybe, wanted to know, but sometimes I just can't help myself. 

Pete 

-----Original Message----- 
From: 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@iowacentralrr.org [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> 
To: CBQ < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2015 7:46 am 
Subject: [CBQ] Re: The Use of Class Lights on GP 7's and 9's 

 

Dave, the colors actually mean different things. 

  

Green meant another section was following, ie as 2 ^nd section of a scheduled train, running on that train’s schedule but perhaps 20 minutes later. It was not an extra as it was considered a scheduled train and treated as such. Rules permitted multiple sections, and heavy trains were often broken into sections. This was common with passenger runs, and esp during WWII. The last train running on that schedule would have no flags or class lights showing, which told everyone it was the last section. So if you were an inferior train waiting in a siding for a scheduled train ie Timetable listed,  and you saw green flags on an opposing train, you knew you could not move until you saw a train moving in the same direction with no flags. And you might see three trains in succession with green f lags. But you could not move until you saw the last section of that train passed you. 

  

White means extra, as in a train that has no schedule and is inferior to all other trains, except per direction. An extra moving in the superior direction would have rights over an extra moving in the inferior direction. If you were flying white flags you had to get out of the way of everything else on the road. 

  

Doug Harding 

www.iowacentralrr.org

  

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Posted by: David Weber <dave@cimmarondesign.com>

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