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In rule books and timetable special instructions, it seemed like they almost always used "enginemen" instead of engineers. I always assumed it therefore would include firemen if applicable. I remember the phrases "enginemen and trainmen", "trainmen and enginemen" or "enginemen trainmen and yardmen". Notice, they often didn't mention conductors or switchmen. On Thursday, January 9, 2014 2:14 PM,
"Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com" <Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com> wrote: Bill et al
Two things I'm sure of...sometimes train orders referred to an "engine" as a "motor"....other times an "engine" was referred to as a "motor".
As I mentioned previously it seemed to be the dispatcher's perogative as to how he addressed his orders. I have even see (not on the Q) a train order addressed to Train No. 1234 "DIESEL" 340.
OK...now we can settle this thing I have the "Book of Rules" from 1916 forward
July 1, 1916: Engine.....A locomotive propelled by any form of energy. Motor....A car propelled by any form of energy
223: The following signals and abbreviations may be used: C&E Conductor and Engilneman C&M Conductor and Motorman
December 1, 1929 Engine A machine propelled by any form of energy and used in train or yard service.....Motor Car A car propelled by any form of energy and used in train or yard service. An asterisk following these definitions refers to a note saying *Where the term "Engine" appears in these rules it applies to either "Engine" or "motor Car". 223 The following signals and abbreviations may be used. C&E--for Conductor and Engineman. C&M for Conductor and Motorman
May 1, 1951: Engine--A unit propelled by any form of energy, or a combination of such units operated from a single control, used in train or yard service.#223 C&E Conductor and engineman. No reference to Motor Cars
Here's a little "insert" I found in the 1951 rulebook owned by a retired...now deceased Lincoln Division Engineer...reading 135 Employes are prohibited from riding on the top of side, end, or roof of any moving car. When on moving cars they must have firm handhold and foothold and be prepared fro unexpected movement.
Something that I have never noticed before...the standard address is "Engineman"...Seems like I always understood it was "engineer".
Well, as the old preachers said when the Scripture reading was ended...."Here endeth the lesson"
Pete
-----Original Message----- From: William Barber <clipperw@gmail.com> To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 10:19 am Subject: [CBQ] Re: Trains orders to "C&M" Pete,
I am sure you are aware that the Q always referred to diesels as motors right up through the early BN days, not locomotives, engines or diesels. You had a consist of three motors on a train, not three locomotives or engines. I am sure that for people working for the RR, use of motorman was probably appropriate, particularly for the gas electric cars and early small Zephyrs. When I first went to work for Electro-Motive, some people who did not have direct contact with RR personnel, could not understand my use of the term engine for a locomotive. To many people in EMD, an engine was something that was installed inside a locomotive carbody. Of course the term motor for a locomotive is more closely associated with electric locomotives, but then, a diesel electric is an electric locomotive with it's own power source. So maybe the Q was more correct than most other RRs!
Bill Barber
Gravois Mills, MO
On Jan 9, 2014, at 4:39 AM, CBQ@yahoogroups.com wrote:
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