Re: [CBQ] Re: Trains orders to "C&M"

[Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com]

Bill et al

Two things I'm sure of...sometimes train orders referred to an "engine" as a "motor"....other times an "engine" was referred to as a "motor".

As I mentioned previously it seemed to be the dispatcher's perogative as to how he addressed his orders.   I have even see (not on the Q) a train order addressed to Train No. 1234 "DIESEL" 340.  

OK...now we can settle this thing I have the "Book of Rules" from 1916 forward

July 1, 1916:  Engine.....A locomotive propelled by any form of energy.   Motor....A car propelled by any form of energy

223:  The following signals and abbreviations  may be used:   C&E Conductor and Engilneman  C&M Conductor and Motorman

December 1, 1929  Engine A machine propelled by any form of energy and used in train or yard service.....Motor Car A car propelled by any form of energy and used in train or yard service.  An asterisk following these definitions refers to a note saying  *Where the term "Engine" appears in these rules it applies to either "Engine" or "motor Car".  223 The following signals and abbreviations may be used.   C&E--for Conductor and Engineman.  C&M for Conductor and Motorman

May 1, 1951:  Engine--A unit propelled by any form of energy, or a combination of such units operated from a single control, used in train or yard service.#223 C&E  Conductor and engineman.   No reference to Motor Cars

Here's a little "insert" I found in the 1951 rulebook owned by a retired...now deceased Lincoln Division Engineer...reading  135  Employes are prohibited from riding on the top of side, end, or roof of any moving car.  When on moving cars they must have firm handhold and foothold and be prepared fro unexpected movement.

Something that I have never noticed before...the standard address is "Engineman"...Seems like I always understood it was "engineer".

Well, as the old preachers said when the Scripture reading was ended...."Here endeth the lesson"

Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: William Barber <clipperw@gmail.com>
To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 10:19 am
Subject: [CBQ] Re: Trains orders to "C&M"

 

Pete,

I am sure you are aware that the Q always referred to diesels as motors right up through the early BN  days, not locomotives, engines or diesels. You had a consist of three motors on a train, not three locomotives or engines. I am sure that for people working for the RR, use of motorman was probably appropriate, particularly for the gas electric cars and early small Zephyrs. When I first went to work for Electro-Motive, some people who did not have direct contact with RR personnel, could not understand my use of the term engine for a locomotive. To many people in EMD, an engine was something that was installed inside a locomotive carbody. Of course the term motor for a locomotive is more closely associated with electric locomotives, but then, a diesel electric is an electric locomotive with it's own power source. So maybe the Q was more correct than most other RRs!

Bill Barber

Gravois Mills, MO

On Jan 9, 2014, at 4:39 AM, CBQ@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Re: Trains orders to "C&M"

Wed Jan 8, 2014 7:48 pm (PST) . Posted by:

petehedgpeth

Leo...to a dd to the TO you saw....In the ICC report on the collision of the PZ and the south local at Napier, MO in October '39 the train orders were addressed to No. 21 MOTORCAR 9900. During my braking days most train orders were address to MOTOR NO 1234. I'll have to check if I've seen anything addressed to c&M. Although some were as above most were addressed to Engine No. 1234....seemed to be dependent on what the dispatcher wanted to do.

Pete

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