From: texaszephyr <texaszephyr@sw.rr.com>
To: Skip Waters <wgcrush@swbell.net>
Sent: Mon, August 20, 2012 11:34:58 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: FW&D Cabooses
Please keep in mind that there were THREE homebuilt
FW&D steel waycars. The pair that the guy was asking about were
built from ex-WWII Army kitchen cars (built from FW&D 109-110) which were
baggage cars. The third car was the homebuilt bay-window car that was painted
red. The two ex-baggage cars were both painted silver like the 151
class.
All of these renumberings make it hard to keep
records straight.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:27
PM
Subject: Fw: [CBQ] Re: FW&D
Cabooses
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: HOL WAGNER <holpennywagner@msn.com>
To: CB&Q Group <cbq@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, August 20, 2012 8:24:47
AM
Subject: RE: [CBQ] Re:
FW&D Cabooses
Steve Goen is quite close to the truth of the matter, at least as
it was told to me by FW&D mechanical department personnel involved at the
time. The two were indeed converted at the Childress shops during 1968
from box express cars 109-110. They were built to fill a desperate need
for cabooses for local service, as the FW&D's fleet of aging wooden cars
was in poor shape, and while the company had been allowed (by the Q) to
purchase a dozen modern extended vision cupola cars (at the same time the
C&S got an identical batch), these cars were strictly for
mainline service, and the cars released by their arrival were in as poor
condition as those already in local freight service. So the mechanical
people took matters into their own hands, and without approval or authority,
converted the two former troop kitchen cars, one -- the 102 -- a copy of the
new extended vision cars (though without the wide cupola) and the other -- the
82 -- a bay window design concocted by several Childress shop personnel.
This latter car, with its Jeep Wagoneer doors incorporated into the bay window
to provide an opening window, porthole windows in each end, and old Andrews
trucks from the car it replaced, is a real "classic." Both of the
existing cabooses carrying the numbers 82 and 102 -- the latter a former Q car
-- were quietly scrapped and no record made of their scrapping. A
thorough search of company records would seem to indicate that the two
old wooden cars were still in service -- I know, because I made that search
when working on the roster for "The Colorado Road," and before I was aware of
the existence of these two oddball home-built cars. Thus they did not
appear in my FW&D caboose roster when "The Colorado Road" was
published in 1970. That the new 102 was painted aluminum
like the extended vision cars it copied, while the truly odd second 82 was
painted Chinese red is unexplained. I would love to see a photo of it
coupled to one-of-a-kind Chinese red NW2 605! We have the FW&D AFE
files at the Colorado Railroad Museum (along with those of the C&S and
CB&Q), and there is absolutely no record there of the existence of either
of these cars. In a somewhat less blatant example of taking
matters into your own hands to get what was needed, the "Denver" removed the
cupola from caboose 63 in 1976 or '77 to create a yard service/transfer
caboose for Fort Worth. This, too, was done without formal
authorization. The farther from the general offices you were, the easier
it was to get away with such things! Maybe that's the real reason
BN moved its headquarters to Fort Worth! (JOKE! Please don't take
that comment seriously!) Hol
To: cbq@yahoogroups.com From: wgcrush@swbell.net Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012
23:37:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: [CBQ] Re: FW&D
Cabooses
Mr. Goen's response...
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: texaszephyr
<texaszephyr@sw.rr.com>
To: Skip Waters
<wgcrush@swbell.net>
Sent: Sun, August 19, 2012 6:21:07
PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re:
FW&D Cabooses
Unlike the Q, the FW&D only owned two ex-WW
II Army kitchen cars which had been purchased for express service. Both had
became surplus after the TEXAS ZEPHYR was discontinued on Sept. 11, 1967 and
both were converted in waycars circa 1968 at the Childress Shops. I
suspect that the Childress Shops used their newly delivered 151 class as
patterns so its my guess that the two home builts came shortly after the
151-162 class arrived.
I'm not sure why the numbers that they received
were chosen. All I can figure is that FW&D book-keepers were attempting to
reuse old numbers as to not show a piece of new equipment being added to the
roster. That being said, it is extremely odd that the two did not receive
consecutive road numbers.
I'm not sure how much of the cars were actually
used. It looks like the frame and sides and possibly some of the roof. The
FW&D would have had to fabricate ends and cupolas. You can clearly see
where the large side doors were plugged during the
conversion.
Steve Goen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 12:28
PM
Subject: Fw: [CBQ] Re: FW&D
Cabooses
Care to respond?
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: William Barber <clipperw@gmail.com>
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, August 18, 2012 9:13:49
AM
Subject: [CBQ] Re:
FW&D Cabooses
In the new Way car book, there are several photos of FW&D caboose no.
73; one a wood caboose which I think is the original #73 built in 1925, and
two of a steel caboose. The steel caboose is obviously built from a WWII
troop kitchen car (jeep) which can clearly be seen in the photo of the car
in BN paint. No mention is made of the troop car conversion. A few pages
later, 600 and 601, another steel caboose, no. 102, is shown which is also a
converted troop kitchen car. There one caption acknowledges it as the 2nd
converted troop car.
It appears that these were the only two
cabooses converted from troop kitchen cars. In the roster on page 579, it
notes that no. 102 was converted from FW&D baggage express car no. 110
which I assume was one of the troop kitchen cars. On page 578, the data for
caboose no. 73 is more confusing. It shows the original no. 73 as built in
1925. I believe that is the wood car in the photo at the bottom of page 589.
Much later, the roster data states that original no. 73 was replaced by
caboose no. 109 which was a former CB&Q NE-9 caboose no. 13807
renumbered to 73. No mention of a steel no. 73 is made in the roster.
my questions are:
1. Were these two steel cars the only ones
converted from troop kitchen cars?
2. Was this work done at the
Childress shop?
3. Was the entire car used or just the side
sheets?
4. It appears that both cars were converted in
1968?
5. Wood car 109 renumbered as no. 73 was apparently scrapped in
1968, so it seems that the steel no. 73 entered service in 1968. It's silver
Q paint scheme would tend to confirm that.
FW&D obviously had an
eclectic fleet of cabooses. In some cases, tracking their history seems to
be a challenge. The Way car book certainly highlights some interesting
oddities that occurred in the Q family of way cars.
Bill
Barber
Gravois Mills, MO
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