Therein lies the problem with car diagrams. They're
great - until you want to know what they actually LOOKED like. RR
diagrams are not always correct and they don't really portray the windos
band as you would need to see it to compare.
The VALLEY 10-6s were built by Budd. The RIVER series 10-6 were
built by Pullman-Standard. The Valley series were stainless
on the outside - no paint (save for the roof on some cars in some
eras). The RIVER series cars were built with steel - and were
painted TTG. There is a HUGE visual difference. The
closest thing to a VALLEY car is the Rivarossi - but it has
issues. Walthers made the RIVER. Now, if you're
talking about the Walthers Budd 10-6s - AT&SF PINE or the UP
PACIFIC Budd sleepers as being close to the VALLEY cars, well....that
becomes one of those "it's your railroad...." things.
The reason VALLEY cars show up a lot on the CZ is that they were Budd -
so, non-painted, and not painted (so not used in the TTG NYC
Pool). If you look real close at several publicity photos,
you'll see, right in front of the dome obs, a NYC VALLEY 10-6 (pre 1957,
typically). Hard to see until you look closely at the roof
(sometimes black on the NYC car, and the skirting (none between the
trucks on the NYC car.
See the LW car spreadsheet and the foreign car sheet (both need to have
some corrections made, been busy with other projects):
http://www.pullmancar.org/
At 01:37 PM 5/9/2012, you wrote:
Bob
I checked with a friend who models the NYC and he provided me with the
Budd 10-6 Valley series names and car diagrams (2 plans) and it appears
the Walthers car is at least close. Thanks for the info on the
4-4-2s as well. Of course it's conceivable that just about any
sleeper from any RR could show up. Just in the extremely limited
knowledge I have on this, I've found pictures with UP, IC, GN and NP (of
course), C&O, PRR, NYC and SP.
It's funny how our perceptions of solid consists of stainless steel cars
all lettered the same can be shattered so easily!
It seems the Q maintained fairly robust passenger operations and needed
the cars to meet the demand.
Ricky K
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: rgz17@comcast.net
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 12:56:18 -0500
Subject: RE: [CBQ] NYC and PRR 10-6 Sleepers on the CZ
While some NYC 10-6s showed up on the CZ in the post 1957 era, by far
more common were the 4-4-2s. 10-6s were the most popular LW car
design, and, like the PRR, they tried to keep them
"home". If you look at the foreign car DB and the various
consists, you'll find that the 4-4-2s and 10-5s from Eastern roads made
the bulk of the special and tour cars for those two RRs.
There isn't a plastic R-T-R NYC VAlLEY car, though with the TCL coming
out, the other variant is provided. But, here again, the concept of
favorites / priorities comes up. The NYC preferred the
painted cars on the main line trains (save for the SWL), and the VALLEY
cars showed up as foreign cars much more often than the
others. The NYC started dumping sleepers in the early
mid-60s, to the IC and to Canada (and later to Mexico). So
you have to adjust accordingly.
At 10:52 AM 5/9/2012, you wrote:
- All, thanks for the inputs. I recently had the opportunity to
pick up several BLI CZ cars enabling me to run a full CZ consist, I
wanted to pick up some of the Walthers NYC 10-6s to run with it as
well. My era is more mid to late 60's but I'm will to stretch a bit
to get some other stuff on the RR.
- As always, a wealth of information just a click away (this is after
going thru the books I already had on the subject) and I thank
you.
- Ricky K.
- To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
- From: rgz17@comcast.net
- Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 08:02:21 -0500
- Subject: Re: [CBQ] NYC and PRR 10-6 Sleepers on the CZ
- Yes, Oct. 1957. But, being pedantic - there was no arrangement
to have NYC & PRR 10-6s run on the CZ on alternating
days.
- The PRR's car, SILVER RAPIDS and a car leased from one of the other
roads in the consortium were used as the contributions to the pool by the
PRR & NYC respectively. The other days, it was a typical
consortium owned and operated (though Pullman staffed) car.
The NYC often used a VALLEY series car, which you can see on many CZs
(trucks and roofs are the main tip-offs).
- The PRR was a full member of the consortium, the NYC was
not. The NYC connection could be a bit hairy given the change
of terminals.
- And, just because the through car agreements ended in 1957, that did
not mean the end of NYC & PRR cars on the CZ - quite the contrary,
they showed up far more often.
- At 07:21 AM 5/9/2012, you wrote:
- Ricky,
-
- I believe the "transcontinental agreements" lasted until
1957, but I don't have my documentation here.
-
- Rich G.
- -----Original Message-----
- From: Rick Keil <rkeil6721@hotmail.com>
- To: cbq <cbq@yahoogroups.com>
- Sent: Wed, May 9, 2012 6:50 am
- Subject: [CBQ] NYC and PRR 10-6 Sleepers on the CZ
-
- How long did the arrangement last to have the NYC and PRR 10-6s run
on the CZ on alternating days?
- Thanks
- Ricky Keil
- Bellevue, NE
- Bob Webber
Bob Webber
Bob Webber
__._,_.___
![]()
__,_._,___
|