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RE: [CBQ] NYC and PRR 10-6 Sleepers on the CZ

To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [CBQ] NYC and PRR 10-6 Sleepers on the CZ
From: Bob Webber <rgz17@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 13:53:21 -0500
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Therein lies the problem with car diagrams.  They're great - until you want to know what they actually LOOKED like.  RR diagrams are not always correct and they don't really portray the windos band as you would need to see it to compare. 

The VALLEY 10-6s were built by Budd.  The RIVER series 10-6 were built by Pullman-Standard.   The Valley series were stainless on the outside - no paint (save for the roof on some cars in some eras).  The RIVER series cars were built with steel - and were painted TTG.  There is a HUGE visual difference.   The closest thing to a VALLEY car is the Rivarossi - but it has issues.   Walthers made the RIVER.   Now, if you're talking about the Walthers  Budd 10-6s - AT&SF PINE or the UP PACIFIC Budd sleepers as being close to the VALLEY cars, well....that becomes one of those "it's your railroad...." things. 

The reason VALLEY cars show up a lot on the CZ is that they were Budd - so, non-painted, and not painted (so not used in the TTG NYC Pool).   If you look real close at several publicity photos, you'll see, right in front of the dome obs, a NYC VALLEY 10-6 (pre 1957, typically).   Hard to see until you look closely at the roof (sometimes black on the NYC car, and the skirting (none between the trucks on the NYC car.  

See the LW car spreadsheet and the foreign car sheet (both need to have some corrections made, been busy with other projects):
http://www.pullmancar.org/




At 01:37 PM 5/9/2012, you wrote:


Bob

I checked with a friend who models the NYC and he provided me with the Budd 10-6 Valley series names and car diagrams (2 plans) and it appears the Walthers car is at least close.  Thanks for the info on the 4-4-2s as well.  Of course it's conceivable that just about any sleeper from any RR could show up.  Just in the extremely limited knowledge I have on this, I've found pictures with UP, IC, GN and NP (of course), C&O, PRR, NYC and SP. 

It's funny how our perceptions of solid consists of stainless steel cars all lettered the same can be shattered so easily!

It seems the Q maintained fairly robust passenger operations and needed the cars to meet the demand.

Ricky K


To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: rgz17@comcast.net
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 12:56:18 -0500
Subject: RE: [CBQ] NYC and PRR 10-6 Sleepers on the CZ



While some NYC 10-6s showed up on the CZ in the post 1957 era, by far more common were the 4-4-2s.  10-6s were the most popular LW car design, and, like the PRR, they tried to keep them "home".  If you look at the foreign car DB and the various consists, you'll find that the 4-4-2s and 10-5s from Eastern roads made the bulk of the special and tour cars for those two RRs.  

There isn't a plastic R-T-R NYC VAlLEY car, though with the TCL coming out, the other variant is provided.  But, here again, the concept of favorites / priorities comes up.   The NYC preferred the painted cars on the main line trains (save for the SWL), and the VALLEY cars showed up as foreign cars much more often than the others.   The NYC started dumping sleepers in the early mid-60s, to the IC and to Canada (and later to Mexico).   So you have to adjust accordingly. 


At 10:52 AM 5/9/2012, you wrote:


All, thanks for the inputs.  I recently had the opportunity to pick up several BLI CZ cars enabling me to run a full CZ consist, I wanted to pick up some of the Walthers NYC 10-6s to run with it as well.  My era is more mid to late 60's but I'm will to stretch a bit to get some other stuff on the RR.

As always, a wealth of information just a click away (this is after going thru the books I already had on the subject) and I thank you.

Ricky K.


To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: rgz17@comcast.net
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 08:02:21 -0500
Subject: Re: [CBQ] NYC and PRR 10-6 Sleepers on the CZ



Yes, Oct. 1957.  But, being pedantic - there was no arrangement to have NYC & PRR 10-6s run on the CZ on alternating days.  

The PRR's car, SILVER RAPIDS and a car leased from one of the other roads in the consortium were used as the contributions to the pool by the PRR  & NYC respectively.  The other days, it was a typical consortium owned and operated (though Pullman staffed) car.   The NYC often used a VALLEY series car, which you can see on many CZs (trucks and roofs are the main tip-offs). 

The PRR was a full member of the consortium, the NYC was not.   The NYC connection could be a bit hairy given the change of terminals.   

And, just because the through car agreements ended in 1957, that did not mean the end of NYC & PRR cars on the CZ - quite the contrary, they showed up far more often. 

At 07:21 AM 5/9/2012, you wrote:

Ricky,
 
I believe the "transcontinental agreements" lasted until 1957, but I don't have my documentation here.
 
Rich G.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Keil <rkeil6721@hotmail.com>
To: cbq <cbq@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, May 9, 2012 6:50 am
Subject: [CBQ] NYC and PRR 10-6 Sleepers on the CZ
 
How long did the arrangement last to have the NYC and PRR 10-6s run on the CZ on alternating days?
Thanks
Ricky Keil
Bellevue, NE

Bob Webber




Bob Webber




Bob Webber

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