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Re: [CBQ] Flagg Center to Savanna Mainline, and other similar segments

To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Flagg Center to Savanna Mainline, and other similar segments
From: STEVEN HOLDING <sholding@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 05:16:27 -0700 (PDT)
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Rich and Glen
See my previous posts on the adding of the second main West of Red Oak, Iowa.  
CTC is suppose to speed up traffic and it does on single track.  Adding the 
second main though increases the ability to move traffic.
One other help is for the Dispatcher to inform the trains what it out there 
coming against them and how he will make the meets and where.  This was recent 
with the better radios and only a couple DS used them for that purpose as 
management did not like this practice.  One problem with CTC is the signal 
locations it often cut the usable length of the sidings.  One way around it was 
to take the switch off power and pull down to the fouling point but this only 
worked with waycars.  Another thing that is of a great help is for the Train 
Dispatcher to be able to get out and ride the trains he moves to know the 
territory and train crews.  Something that is not done today
Steve in SC
Train Dispatcher retired




________________________________
From: GLEN HAUG <glenehaug@msn.com>
To: cbq@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 12:42:30 AM
Subject: RE: [CBQ] Flagg Center to Savanna Mainline, and other similar segments


Rich:

I believe all of the answers to your post are correct.  I have been doing some 
research on signal history, and while the segment from Oregon to Savanna was 
not 
specifically mentioned in early correspondence, I found information written 
about several segments of the mainline where the Q's management was not 
satisfied with the geometry of their original main track, and they either 
postponed adding a second track until they had the money to relocate the 
original main, or they added signals at a very early date to provide a 
satisfactory operation.  For a variety of reasons, they never got around to 
improving the original track, adding the second track, or postponed these 
improvements for many years.

A prime example was the grade between Whitebreast (west of Indianola Jct.) and 
Troy (later replaced by Shannon) in central Iowa.  When the Q extended the 
double track west from Chariton, in 1900, they skipped this 3 mile segment 
because they were so dis-satisfied with the eastbound grade of the original 
track up from Whitebreast Creek.  The EB ruling grade had to approach 1.5%.  
The 
Q did not have, or chose not to spend, the money to relocate the original main, 
and made the decision to install 'lock and block' signals on the single main 
instead.  They were ultimately able to get by for a long time, because the 
single main was still in existence in 1933 when CTC was installed between 
Chariton and Shannon, and it was 1936 before the second (EB) main was 
constructed.  The original main was never relocated, and exists today as the 
Westbound track.

I suspect the segment from Oregon to Savanna was another one of those segments 
that management wrangled with, wondering if the money necessary to fix the 
undulating profile of the track was worth it.  In 1946, when CTC was installed 
between Flag Center and Savanna Tower, information provided indicated that 
traffic consisted of 12 passenger trains and from 9 to 12 freight trains daily. 
 
Also important was the fact that all but a couple locals were in fast through 
service.  The proposed siding capacity was to be 140 cars, which exceeded by 
quite a bit the average freight train consist of 80 cars.  This, coupled with 
the close siding spacing of about 6 miles average, was projected to enable most 
meets to occur without stopping.  Whether the actual operation was this smooth 
or not, the expenditure for CTC probably put to rest any further discussion 
that 
might have taken place about the need to add a second track.

Glen Haug



To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: rgortowski@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:30:32 -0400
Subject: [CBQ] Flagg Center to Savanna Mainline


  




List,

This may have been discussed before, but I don't recall it. I'm curious about 
the decision the Q made not to double track the Minneapolis mainline on the C&I 
from Flagg Center, IL to Savanna, IL. This was (and remains) an awfully busy 
stretch of track for a single main. I know this was one of the earliest 
installations of CTC in the US, but I'm interested as to why this stretch was 
never double tracked.

Thanks,

Rich

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