The D&SL cars were a combination of Pullman oval roof & ACF arched
roof. Neither were Harriman(from another thread - note in my note I
said coaches specifically). The coaches were rebuilt by the D&RGW
and were clerestory.
ALL of the re-roofs of the D&RGW were NOT roofs that were changed
from one style to another (implying the removal of the first
roof). The arch on the new version of the roof was flat and was
simply faring the space between the lower & upper deck of the
clerestory. The clerestory roof existed beneath the new sheathing.
The cars that were modified to the special D&RGW paint scheme number
1 (Pullman reference) were the cars that had been on the Exposition
Flyer and were rendered surplus by the use of CZ domes and
10-6s. Hence they were in the beginning of 1948. They never
appeared on the CB&Q except in the Denver area. The baggage cars
were rebuilt starting in 1937 (722) again, for use on the Expo first.
At 02:40 PM 12/30/2007, railbass@comcast.net wrote:
>D&RGW did not purchase arch roof cars, but when it took over the
>Denver & Salt Lake in 1947, it acquired a number of arch roof
>baggage and express cars, which it continued to run on the Craig
>Local - Yampa Valley Mail - trains 9 and 10 - between Denver and
>Craig. The cars were relettered for D&RGW, renumbered into series
>with similar D&RGW cars, and later were painted into the 1950s
>passenger scheme of aspen gold and silver with four black stripes,
>lasting into the 1960s. The ex-D&SL cars were recognizable by
>their roof vents. It appears none of the D&SL coaches survived
>into the D&RGW. The one heavyweight exception is D&SL office car
>Marcia, which is on display in Craig, having been donated by the
>D&RGW after the merger of the D&SL.
>
>The Yampa Valley Mail lasted until April 1968, with a D&SL baggage
>RPO runnning until almost the very end. A lightweight
>combine-dormitory and coach from the Prospector or Royal Gorge was
>used after the mail contract was ended for the normal two-car consist.
>
>In 1939, with the inaugaration of the Exposition Flyer, the D&RGW
>"streamstyled" a number of heavyweight diner-lounges, coaches, and
>the Glenwood Canyon observation to provide a more modern appearance
>and also ice-activated air conditioning and flush windows. The
>clerestory roofs were changed to an arch style, and skirting was
>added to make the cars appear more modern. Some were lettered in
>an old English font, but this did not last long. In the late
>1940s, some of these cars were painted black with yellow stripes to
>match the original scheme of the FTs and F3s and served on the
>Prospector. A chapter in Joseph Strapac's Rio Grande Diesels,
>Volume 3, lists and describes these cars. In 1947, three of the
>D&RGW baggage express cars were rebuilt in a similar manner into
>baggage-dormitory cars for the Prospector. Several of these cars
>continued in passenger service into the late 1960s and were then
>placed in MOW service.
>- John Manion
> Denver, CO
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: Bob Webber <rgz17@comcast.net>
>Well, again, it depends on your tolerance. If it is truly what is
>termed a "Harriman" car (a misnomer as it should be "Common Standard"
>) then it has no built up center sill, it has an arched (oval) roof
>from end to end, with the roof plates perpendicular to the sides from
>end to end, and the plates overlapping on an even/odd basis. No
>D&RGW car had a "Harriman roof", no D&RGW coach had an arched
>roof. The D&RGW coaches that appear to have an arched roof have a
>roof that is a clerestory version that is sheathed into a very much
>shallower arch (in fact the top is not arched, but is the same as the
>clerestory). Again, it depends on tolerances, but that isn't anywhere
>close in my book.
>
>It may be close to a WP car, I'd have to look at it. But the WP cars
>were not Common Standard cars, they were a UP design that was
>modified to suit the WP. Therefore it had a built up (Pullman)
>centersill and other items of note. Again, it depends on your tolerance.
>
>What I would like to see is passenger car modeling tolerance like
>that of freight cars - where the ends, underframe and roof actually
>matter. Add to that the method of building each side, and you have a
>much better ability to get closer to prototype. If all we're going
>to do is settle for stand ins, we'll not get what the freight car
>community has now. People have, I think, learned not to say roof walk.
>
>At 10:04 PM 12/29/2007, Bob Webber wrote:
> >At 01:30 PM 12/29/2007, Michal Basta wrote:
> >>Jerry:
> >>
> >>yes, it looks similar to the 900 series D&RGW cars before the upper window
> >>parts were blanked over, unfortunately, the JnJ kit has too much
> windows (11
> >>pairs instead of 10), the other issue is the DRGW cars did have very
> >>distinctive arched restroom windows. But I agree that kit might be starting
> >>point for a kitbash, especialy if one wants to model these cars as before
> >>the upper window parts were blanked over, i.e. definitely before the era of
> >>Expo.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>Michal B.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > 2a. Re: For those interested in the Exposition Flyer - N scale
> >> > Posted by: "Jerry M. LaBoda" jmlaboda2@yahoo.com jmlaboda2
> >> > Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:30 am ((PST))
> >> >
> >> > To add to usable cars list, the J-n-J "Harriman" 80' coach
> (which is more
> >> > appropriate for a Barney and Smith car than a
> >> "Harriman"). While there is
> >> > no easy answer to the idea of the arched roof the sides, with the window
> >> > frames modified, just as they were done by the Grande, would be quite
> >> > useful in creating these unique cars.
> >> >
> >> > jerry
> >> > <jmlaboda2@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Bob Webber
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Bob Webber
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