Stephen:
Your observations about Lines West is correct, but on Lines East there were
a few variations. I have a list somewhere of the types of signals used for
absolutes (at control points or interlockings) and intermediates. I will
dig it out, and include it's information in a subsequent message.
Glen Haug
>From: "Stephen J. Levine" <sjl@prodigy.net>
>Reply-To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
>To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [CBQ] SIgnals on the Q
>Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:00:53 -0700 (PDT)
>
>As you can see below, an interesting discussion is occurring on the
>NYC-Railroad list about signal practices.
>
> What were the practices on the Q for block signals and interlocking
>signals in terms of the types of signals used. My personal observations
>were that, at least with Lines West, signals governing sidings were
>head-offset target signals, whereas those governing blocks were vertical
>tri-light signals. Interlocking signals, if I were remember, were also
>target signals.
>
> I am hoping this post, with the inclusion of the post below, will
>inspire someone to write about signaling practices on the Burlington. I
>remember, as a teenager, riding in a dome on the DZ as a fellow explained
>signalling. Unfortunately, I did not understand a lot of it, although, as
>a dome rider, I had been interested in the signal bridges as part of the
>overall experience. I would like to revisit those memories with some
>additional insight into what I was seeing and why.
>
> sjl
>
>"Stephen J. Levine" <sjl@prodigy.net> wrote:
> To: NYC-Railroad@yahoogroups.com
>From: "Stephen J. Levine" <sjl@prodigy.net>
>Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:32:19 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: [NYC-Railroad] SIgnal "Rules" For NYC System Railroads
>
> I always wondered by some signals had offset heads and some did
>not.
>
>Was that generally standard for all railroads where the block signals had
>offset heads and the interlocking signals were vertical?
>
>aschneiderjr@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>Right, my mistake. Alex
>
>On 9 Jul 2007 at 17:15, Richard Stoving wrote:
>
> > Alex,
> > Nice summary, but didn't you mean to write that interlocking signals had
> > a vertical arrangement, while block (stop and proceed) signals had
> > offset heads?
> > Rich
> >
> > aschneiderjr@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> >
> > > Ken,
> > >
> > > Although initially each railroad wrote its own rules, coordination
> > > began during
> > > the 1880s. A "standard rulebook" was written, although each railroad
> > > could,
> > > and did, adapt it for its own needs. Rules 281 and following,
> > > governing
> > > signals, were commonly condensed to omit aspects which a particular
> > > railroad did not use, and the illustrations depicted semaphores, color
> > > lights /
> > > searchlights, or position lights depending on the style(s) used by
> > > that
> > > railroad. The NYC used most of the standard aspects; you should look
> > > for a
> > > NYC rule book at a train show for specific information. The two
> > > editions
> > > commonly available are ca. 1938 and 1956. Stickers showing rule
> > > changes
> > > subsequent to publication are often pasted on appropriate pages.
> > >
> > > As the New York Central was formed by mergers between 1914 and 1936 of
> > >
> > > independent railroads which had developed signal systems
> > > independently,
> > > the answer to your question depends on WHAT portion of the NYC you
> > > model and WHEN. I will try to give a short overview.
> > >
> > > First, you need to understand the difference between BLOCK and
> > > INTERLOCKING signals. Block signals are spaced along main lines to
> > > keep
> > > a following train from running into one preceding it, while
> > > interlocking signals
> > > are installed where multiple routes and/or crossings are controlled by
> > > a
> > > tower operator. The most restrictive aspect of a block signal is "Stop
> > > and
> > > proceed", while the most restrictive aspect of an interlocking signal
> > > is "Stop".
> > > Block signals on the NYC had a number plate denoting the mileage from
> > > a
> > > particular point, such as Buffalo in the case of the main line from
> > > Buffalo to
> > > Chicago. Interlocking signals did not have number plates.
> > >
> > > Semaphore signals were the first to be developed and most signals were
> > >
> > > initially of that type. Color light signals and "searchlight" signals
> > > began to
> > > appear around the time of World War I. The former had a separate bulb
> > > and
> > > lens for each color to be displayed by that head (normally green,
> > > yellow and
> > > red), while the searchlight had a single bulb and lens and a
> > > mechanical
> > > "spectacle" between the bulb and the lens so the correct color was
> > > displayed. The color light was cheaper to maintain, but the
> > > searchlight was
> > > thought to be safer because incident sunlight could not be reflected
> > > back
> > > and give a misleading indication. The Michigan Central (Chicago -
> > > Detroit -
> > > Buffalo) and Lines East (Buffalo - New York) liked searchlights, the
> > > Lines
> > > West (Chicago - Cleveland - Detroit) liked color lights, typically in
> > > a triangle
> > > arrangement. You need localized information here. Semaphores were
> > > still in
> > > widespread use into the 1940s.
> > >
> > > If a signal was to display more than three aspects, two or three heads
> > > were
> > > used. In the case of a block signal they were arranged in a vertical
> > > line and
> > > normally three heads were used, while in the case of an interlocking
> > > signal
> > > the upper one was offset to the left and the lower one to the right
> > > and
> > > normally two heads were used. When a fourth block signal aspect was
> > > used
> > > it was typically ADVANCE APPROACH; my impression is that this level of
> > >
> > > signalling was only used on multi-track main lines.
> > >
> > > Interlocking signals were common at junctions even on routes whose
> > > traffic
> > > did not justify block signals along the main line. A simple, yet
> > > fairly complete,
> > > understanding of interlocking signals is to think of the top head as
> > > governing
> > > normal speed track beyond the signal, the middle head as governing
> > > medium speed, and the bottom head as governing low speed. If no track
> > > of
> > > a given speed existed beyond the signal, the corresponding head would
> > > be
> > > red at all times. So a block signal in advance of a slow speed
> > > diverging route
> > > into a yard might have a three aspect head in the top position, a
> > > red-only
> > > "dummy" in the middle position, and a two aspect head allowing only
> > > red and
> > > yellow in the bottom position. When the diverging route was lined, the
> > > best
> > > signal available was "restricting", which in essence meant, you're on
> > > your
> > > own, watch for other traffic, broken rails, misalligned switches or
> > > anything
> > > else. A signal governing a route into a siding might substitute a
> > > three aspect
> > > head on the bottom if block protection thru the siding was provided.
> > >
> > > Hope this didn't exceed your interest level. Signals add a lot of
> > > interest but
> > > interlocking signals, in particular, can be complex.
> > >
> > > Alex Schneider
> > >
> > > On 9 Jul 2007 at 11:21, Ken Leaver Jr wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a copy a friend gave to me years ago of what I believe to be
> > > an
> > > > Model Railroader Article titled "The ABC's of prototype Signaling"
> > > by
> > > > Gordon Odegard. It lists a bunch of rules such as Rule 281: Name
> > > Clear,
> > > > Indication Proceed. My question is, who set these rules? The FRA???
> > > And
> > > > if so, I presume then the NYC followed them? If not, what did the
> > > NYC
> > > > use for its' signal aspects. In particular, for STOP,
> > > PROCEED-PREPARE
> > > > TO STOP, PROCEED AT RESTRICTED SPEED and STOP.
> > > >
> > > > I want to keep my Signal Aspects simple, so I don't plan on using
> > > that
> > > > many, 3 or 4 at the most. For certain, I want STOP, PROCEED-PREPARE
> > > TO
> > > > STOP, and CLEAR. The fourth on might be PROCEED AT RESTRICTED SPEED,
> > >
> > > > but on a model railroad that seems rather redundant. Is there a
> > > signal
> > > > aspect that I am missing that might be useful on a model railroad?
> > > Is
> > > > the fourth aspect needed? Especially those who model and operate
> > > > something following the NYC Prototype, what do you use? I would like
> > > to
> > > > use Type-G signals. Is there any other information I need to provide
> > > so
> > > > my questions can be answered?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for any info and help!
> > > >
> > > > Ken L.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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