Paul,
Take this in steps:
1. AT&SF was the only major road that seldom if ever pooled cars
with other roads. While with diversions and shipper's selection of
routings you may see a car here and there it would not be a lot.
Since AT&SF did have Freight House loadings that needed to go to
the GN or NP they delivered to Cicero almost every day. Often
their Freight House loading would be done in SFRD's. Would be
more likely to see a group moving North than East or West.
2. The one Eastbound train that I have posted recently was LC70.
That train originated at South Omaha and was specifically run to
attract the hanging meat business. While it might have had an
occasional PFE they would not be common on that train.
3. Have recently posted list for three IHB to CB&Q deliveries.
They give a better idea of the mix of initials that normally
moved.
4. The solid PFE trains on the SP and UP is largely lore rather
than data. For the entire Summer and Fall they were pooling with
just about anyone that had fan type cars except the AT&SF. Just
looking at the books I have that showed trains on that route the
car next to the engine is not always a PFE. They used BAR's entire
fleet for about nine months of every year.
5. As the trains moved further East the cars got scattered. A CB&Q
train leaving South Omaha would have a pretty solid block of just
a few types of meat reefers. On the other hand think about a NKP
train leaving Hammond headed East. While it may be solid reefers
they would be a total mix from all the roads that come into Chicago
from the West.
6. A caution. When you are talking about PFE cars in the late 60's
they would only be going East. Westbound they would be rather rare,
although not entirely missing. Why? PFE made a deal with the Penn
Central and C&NW to move them West in solid blocks. While the other
roads continued to get normal business volumes going East the C&NW
returned most of the empties.
I will type up and post another Eastbound train. This time it will
not be LC70.
Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul K.
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 24 August, 2005 00:13
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Reefers Question
Russ,
What I'm referring to as a block is a number of cars, in this case reefers,
with the *same* reporting marks, not as *all* the reefers in the train. This
goes back to my original question of "Would there be any PFE or SFRD cars in
any numbers hauled or were they hauled in trains exclusively of the UP/SP and
ATSF?" In my world I'm calling these PFE or SFRD cars *blocks*.
Since your consist info of that train shows only one SFRD reefer, and zero
PFE reefers, one could easily infer that large *blocks* of these cars having
SFRD and PFE reporting marks then, would *not* be handled in a Burlington
train, but only/mostly shipped in trains of Santa Fe and UP/SP respectively.
The main reason I asked this question is because I am an HO modeler of the
CB&Q in the late 1960's and I like to do "all things Burlington" accurately
when possible/convenient. So as an example of where I'm coming from with this
question, I have a number of PFE reefers which I have accumulated over the past
dozen years or so, but as my knowledge of railroads and the 'Q has grown, I was
starting to think that possibly these cars wouldn't normally be shipped on the
Burlington from out west, but on, in PFE's case, the UP/SP. Now I can see how
one or a few of these cars could end up in a local train of the Burlington in
interchange, as could *any* railroad's cars, and looking at the single consist
you shared I could easily assume that was the case. However, I had to reach a
decision based on only one consist which doesn't seem like a good idea. That's
why I was hoping others could share info from consists they may have, or that
someone knowledgeable could just give me the answer.
Clear as mud, eh. But I DO appreciate your effort to help me answer this
question.
Best,
"Paul (Kossart) - The CB&Q Guy"
Peru, IL *USA*
(Modeling 1960's in HO.)
````````
At 05:04 AM 8/20/2005, Russell Strodtz <19main@groundcontrol.us> wrote:
>Paul,
>
>You really got me lost now. That consist includes 54
>reefers in a row. Isn't that a "very large block"?
>
>Any Midwestern road of that era would have considered
>this as a pretty good train. It probably includes the
>CB&Q's share of the daily loading of at least 10
>packing plants. This was a very cyclical business. The
>cars were loaded and moved in the manner that would get
>the right number of cars to the public delivery tracks
>on the days when the demand would be greatest. No one
>would load a car timed to get to East 33rd Street in
>New York City on a Saturday or Sunday since they
>normally did not doing any selling on the two Sabbaths.
>
>Going to have to tell me what you're looking for here.
>
>Russ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul K.
> To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com ; CBQ@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 18 August, 2005 01:01
> Subject: Re: [CBQ] Reefers Question
>
>
> Ah, indeed you did, Russ. Thank you for the pointer.
>
> I know it's only one consist but I'm inferring that the reefers in
question can be included in a train at least in a small quantity, but not in
very large blocks. Does anyone else have any consists or recollections which
could support or refute my inference they'd be willing to share, onlist or off?
If so it would be much appreciated.
> --
> "Paul (Kossart) - The CB&Q Guy"
>
>
> ````````
> At 05:35 AM 8/17/2005, you wrote:
> >Paul,
> >
> >Think I covered that to some extent in a message on
> >05-Jun-2005.
> >
> >Russ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Paul K.
> > Subject: [CBQ] Reefers Question
> >
> > I have another question concerning road names in a consist, this time
concerning reefers in a Burlington freight train. Era is 1960's... <snip>
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