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TCZ Parlors (was Re: [BRHSlist] TZ Consists)

To: BRHSlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: TCZ Parlors (was Re: [BRHSlist] TZ Consists)
From: sjl@p...
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:10:32 -0500
Brad

At least the Silver Chair and possibly the Silver 
Parlor were moved to Denver Zephyr after they were 
converted to Dinette Coaches in 1968. As such, they 
replaced the Chuckwagon Domes.

I was on the first DZ to not have the Chuckwagon on it 
as a regular car. This was train 1 of September 7, 
1968. The dome observation car Silver Chateau was 
placed behind the diner and the Silver Chair was 
placed in front, where the Chuckwagon had run the 
night before. The Silver Chair still smelled of fresh 
paint.

At the rear of the train were two Pennsy Sleepers 
chartered by the Four Winds tour company.

Passengers that night did see number 10 as it passed 
that night, and they reported the obs (Silver Veranda, 
obviously) at the end of that train. I thus concluded 
that ours was the first in this configuration.

I had seen the DZ the spring before and was surprised 
to see the dome observation car connected to the 
slumbercoach. Apparently, by the late 60's, the off-
season consist ran only 1 slumbercoach and 1 10-6 
sleeper. Since the rear portion of the peak consist 
ran obs-sleeper-sleeper-slumbercoach-slumbercoach-
sleeper-diner-etc, it made sense that the off-season 
consist, being cut from the back, would be obs-
slumbercoach-sleeper-diner-etc.

sjl

--- Original Message ---
From: Brad Slaney <bradslaney@w...>
To: <BRHSlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [BRHSlist] TZ Consists

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jules Johnson" <cbqrr17@a...>
>To: <BRHSlist@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:11 PM
>Subject: Re: [BRHSlist] TZ Consists
>
>
>> Wayner Publications, "CAR NAMES NUMBERS & CONSISTS" 
by Robert J Wayner,
>states on page 225 that "Parlor Cars 340-SILVER 
PARLOR and 341-SILVER CHAIR
>were outshopped in November 1949 for TWIN ZEPHYR 
operation" and "converted
>in(to) dinette-chair cars in August and September 
1968." This backs up Rich
>G. 1950 consist, and appears that the cars were in TZ 
service till 1968,
>after which they remained in TZ service(?) till 
Amtrak. Which leads to a
>couple of questions: What does "outshopped" refer to-
an existing car rebuilt
>or a newly constructed car? What was the difference 
between the
>Morning/Afternoon Zephyrs and the Twin Zephyrs? Were 
there 4 separate
>consists ?, or were only 2 consists used? The 
original consists of the 1947
>Twin Zephyrs does not list #4714-SILVER DOME. When 
were SILVER DOME and
>#4709-SILVER CASTLE added to the Chicago-Minneapolis 
runs? For Rich G. 1950
>consist, SILVER CASTLE was available. Your help is 
needed(?) as I have an
>exam on this topic Friday(LOL).
>
>Jules,
>
>There were two separate trains. #21-#24; #22-#23. 
The Morning Zephyr was
>turned at it's terminal, either Chicago or 
Minneapolis, and became the
>Afternoon Zephyr for the return trip, both trainsets 
running almost 900
>miles daily.
>
>I could be wrong on this, but the differentiation 
between Morning/Afternoon
>Zephyrs and Twin Zephyrs MAY be referring to the 
different trainsets, the
>original shovelnose, articulated set and the later 
Dome trainset. But then
>I've heard the train called, Afternoon Zephyr, 
Morning Zephyr, Twin Cities
>Zephyr, Twin Zephyr. In all probability the names 
are interchangeable.
>
>>From 1957 to 1963, I made at least 100 trips on the 
TCZ in both directions,
>on both trainsets. The normal consist was baggage-
lounge, 4 dome coaches,
>diner and parlor-obs. Only once, was there ever a 
flat top parlor in the
>consist, it was during the summer of '58 or '59 and 
it was going to Seattle,
>being loaned to either GN or NP for their 
Seattle/Portland service. Just
>because the timetable lists a car number, doesn't 
indicate the the car was
>run. Cars were added or removed as business 
conditions dictated. Also
>remember, we paid Chicago Union Station Company $10 
for every car. We
>couldn't fill one parlor car let alone two. 
Unnecessary, non revenue
>producing cars did not last long on the Burlington.
>
>BRAD
>
>
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