My, aren't you the sweetheart... 
   You're the one who was complaining about the models not being made in 
  the US.  We explain why it's not profitable, and you call names.   
  
  Rich G
  -----Original 
  Message-----
From: David Weber 
dave@cimmarondesign.com [CBQ] <
CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: CBQ 
  <
CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 
  Fri, Oct 14, 2016 5:17 pm
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [CBQ] Variation in the Grays 
  in the Blackbird Scheme
  
    
  
  
  
  not a matter of where it’s made. if it ain’t right don’t buy it. if you 
  by it and it ain’t right don’t complain it’s not right. you and charlie would 
  make great politicians.
  
  
    
    
      
    
    Just to reinforce Charlie's comment about how 
    cheap it is to ship something to/from China, a 40' high cube container, 
    sailing from Shanghai to Rockford, IL (this includes the vessel, rail 
    transportation, the trucking to your factory, and all duties and brokerage 
    services) is under $5000.00.  In comparison, it cost several thousands 
    of dollars to ship a truckload of our fabricated metal products to Florida. 
    
    
    Also, labor cost may not be a large cost in manufacturing model 
    railroad items, but for metal fabrication, you can buy the product, ship it 
    here, and your landed cost is usually half of what we can typically 
    manufacture it for here.  This is why Walmart is filled with Chinese 
    manufactured goods.  Most people aren't willing to pay a premium for 
    something manufactured in the US.
    
    Rich G. - 33 years in manufacturing 
    supply chain/plant management
    
    -----Original 
    Message-----
From: 'Charlie Vlk' 
cvlk@comcast.net [CBQ] <
CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: CBQ <
CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 14, 2016 1:15 
    pm
Subject: RE: [Bulk] [CBQ] Variation in the Grays in the Blackbird 
    Scheme
    
      
    
    
    
    
    
    David-
     
    My second career 
    has been in the Model Railroad Industry for almost 25 years and I can assure 
    you that the cost of labor is a relatively minor factor in the decision to 
    manufacture overseas.
    The existence of 
    companies willing to do turnkey production of models is the primary 
    reason…..
     
    All Model 
    Railroad “Corporations” are essentially small, family-owned type businesses 
    and the wonderful range of products we have today is based on the ability 
    for an entrepreneur to start a company importing trains to designs and 
    specifications they develop as a sole proprietor perhaps growing to a few 
    employees with very modest capital to go to one of several such companies in 
    China and receive product without having to huge sums in infrastructure for 
    what is a very low return on investment.   
     
    Would it be 
    possible to establish open turnkey factories here in the United 
    States?   Theoretically, yes.   But unless one had a 
    deep well of private capital to purchase state-of-the-art machinery to 
    produce tooling, mold plastic and produce diecast parts, make metal 
    turnings, screws and other bits, create electric motors and circuit boards, 
    set up painting and printing production equipment lines, make inserts, 
    boxes, etc. and then do assembly, packing and shipping…no bank would loan 
    funds for such a venture.
     
    We are not 
    “bitchen”, just giving informed insights into the current state of the Model 
    Railroad Industry.    All of us that work in the business 
    would much prefer to work in a totally vertically integrated environment 
    where problems could be solved in English by walking out the door down to 
    the appropriate department and working it out instead of sending multiple 
    volleys of emails back and forth and dealing with additional problems 
    generated each time one is solved.  
     
    As a concrete 
    example of why things aren’t made here…. A well-known manufacturer had a 
    fairly automated production line established here.   Various state 
    and local social engineering regulations moved them to reduce their total 
    workforce under a certain threshold in order not to add overhead costs to 
    the product which could not be reasonably passed on in the price of the 
    product.   The move of the production machinery to China was 
    certainly not in the millions of dollars (a couple of containers) and the 
    control over production and costs has been a disaster for the company and 
    has not benefited anyone including the consumer who has still seen “normal” 
    price increases.   
     
    The notion that 
    the Model Railroad Industry is comprised of big companies with exorbitant or 
    even decent profit margins is off base… Dave has it right….I don’t know of 
    anyone in the Model Railroad Industry that couldn’t be making more money at 
    a real job….but most of us are in it because we like trains and it is, for 
    us, a pleasant way to make a living.   
     
    Charlie 
    Vlk
    Railroad Model 
    Resources
     
    
    
    
     
    the manufactures spent a few million to send it to china, let em spend 
    a few to bring it back. if one cannot buy into that quit bitchen
    
    
      
       
      
      
       
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      David Weber wrote: “why not 
      move the whole manufacturing process back to the US. what a 
      concept”
 
      
      
      Having observed 
      what a manufacturer has to go through running a fairly fully vertically 
      integrated model railroad factory in the Chicago area, an awful lot has to 
      change in the attitude of the labor pool, federal, state, county, and 
      local agencies (ranging from building code, fire, signage, environmental, 
      workplace, social engineering, tax policy, reporting requirements and 
      other forms of bureaucracy ) as well as bank monetary policies before 
      we’ll see the establishment of many new model railroad factories in the 
      US.    
 
      
      Not saying it 
      will not happen; Lionel is doing some small scale work in the US and costs 
      are driving in the direction towards the day when it may be possible to 
      see more done domestically.   But there are still tremendous 
      barriers to doing everything here from tooling through final 
      production.
 
      
      Of course, if 
      someone is sitting on a few million dollars that wants to be a leader in 
      bringing Model Train production back to the US I would love to consult on 
      setting up such an enterprise!!!