Louis,
These are great photos. Thank you. They
clearly show the drop-down headlight bracket. Years ago, Kemtron (I think)
made this, calling it a”Great Northern” bracket. At the time I was
modeling 1900 and had no use for them...Hindsight is always better. It is
one of the inaccurate details I have to live with. Thanks again.
I have heard there is a video of the #409’s excussion
run in 1959 but I can find no information on it. That would be a great
find,
Pat
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing? [2
Attachments]
[Attachment(s) from LZadnichek@aol.com included below]
April 28, 2016
Pat - Here's two inserted/attached images of FW&D Class E-4-A-1 No.
409:
Childress, TX, 1955
Unknown location and date.
No. 409 made the FW&D's last steam run on August 15, 1959, then was
retired and sold for scrap. Hope you find these two images of use in modeling
the locomotive.
FW&D sold sister No. 410 to the Texas & Pacific RR for hurricane
protection and it survives today on display in Marshall, TX, as T&P No. 400.
Best Regards - Louis
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL
In a message dated 4/27/2016 10:00:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:
Louis,
I randomly picked #409 from photo’s in Hol Wagner’s
Colorado Road. I suspect I have many of the details wrong but I
did “remove” the exterior boiler hinges, moved the air pumps to the fireman
sidalong with reversing the air tanks. I built up the sand dome with
epoxy and dropped the headllight. I also added the light fixture in
front of the smokestack. I have debated removing the LMB turret and
replacing it with a Cal Scale one. I did add a front end throttle and
some other small parts, made a oid cistern from plastic It is
close. Any specific reason for asking...I am always willing to discuss
my “bashes” as well as to learn how to improve them.
Pat
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing?
April 27, 2016
Pat - Thanks! Is there a specific FW&D Class E-4 2-8-2 locomotive
that you're modeling? Best Regards - Louis
In a message dated 4/26/2016 6:37:46 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:
Louis,
This is a great help. It is nice to clear this
up so I can re-do the bunker on my FW&D ,E4 (modified LMB). The
timing is perfect as I am finishing the installation of a Tsunami decoder
and my original fabricated bunker is on the workbench. Thanks
again.
Pat
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing? [2
Attachments]
[Attachment(s) from
LZadnichek@aol.com included below]
April 26, 2016
Patrick - In the attached/inserted image of 5632's oil tender taken at
Oregon, IL, the "crooked" pipe facing down at the right front of the
tender's oil bunker is the vent for the relief valve. Also, note from the
lifting straps on the rear of the tender (the straps at front are obscured),
the bunker was fabricated separately to drop into the coal bunker. That is,
the back shop just didn't weld steel sheets across the top of the open coal
bunker to enclose it, an entirely new and separate oil tank was fabricated
to custom fit the coal tender.
For comparison, here's an inserted/attached image showing the interior
of 5633's empty coal-burning tender in the Galesburg, IL, deadline during
1961. There were a number of steel sheets stretching-up from the bottom to
the sides for reinforcement. Evidently, these sheets were removed to make
room for installing an oil bunker. This will give you some idea of how "big"
the oil tank was that was placed into the tenders of the converted Class
O-5-B locomotives.
Lastly, getting back to the 5632's oil tender, the bunker tank top
opening at rear is "flanged" meaning that it was supposed to be fastened
down with bolts so oil would not pour out of the tender in case of a
derailment where it was laying on its side. The tender sand box pipe at
front off-center has what looks to be a drop-on lid with hand hold to
open/close. There would've been a flexible steam line from the boiler
running out under the cab that was connected to the tender oil bunker for
steam to flow into the heating coils. The control valve for the steam line
would've been located in the cab on the fireman's side. If you contact the
Colorado Railroad Museum, they may be able to take photographs of
5629's tender oil bunker to further explain:
Hope this generally answers your questions. Best Regards - Louis
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL
In a message dated 4/20/2016 5:23:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing?
The fireman had to be very careful in
regulating the steam which kept the oil warm....If it got too hot it would
"boil over"...I think that you might say that that situation would create
a bit of a mess...and no doubt could produce a bit of somewhat harsh
commentary from the engineer and perhaps others around the engine.
Pete
Louis and others.
Thanks for another great
photo. I noted the safety handrail is also offset to the fireman’s
side as depicted in an earlier photo. Where was the preasure relief
valve, where were the contols for the steam line and finally, where did
the steam line enter the cistern?
-----Original
Message----- From: LZadnichek@aol.com [CBQ]
<CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: CBQ
<CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Apr 15, 2016 2:00 pm Subject:
Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing? [1 Attachment]
[Attachment(s) from LZadnichek@aol.com included
below]
April 15, 2016
Pete, Pat and Phil - Of all the digital images in my
collection, I do not have a full tender top image of a Class O-5-B or
Class S-4-A oil burner. The closest I have is an undated partial overhead
view taken of Class O-5-B No. 5614 in Lincoln, NE, both inserted and
attached below:
If you slightly enlarge the attached image, you can see the tank top
opening for the oil bunker at far rear behind the safety handrail.
Unfortunately, you can not see any tender sand box top opening.
Pete is partially correct when he says the oil bunker was slightly
pressurized. There were steam heating coils within the bunker to heat the
Bunker C fuel oil to make it "thin" enough to flow through the pipe to the
firebox atomizer. When the oil was fully heated, it would expand and
create a slight pressure that would escape around the edge of the tank top
opening (you could smell the hot oil fumes).
Two oil-burning Class O-5-B locomotives are preserved, the 5614 at
St. Joseph, MO, and the 5629 at the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden,
CO. Perhaps, a Group member living close to either locomotive could visit
and measure/photograph the tender sand box, as well as the tender top side
for placement of openings, then share with the rest of us. Should pretty
much be the same as on other large oil burners.
Regarding terminology, it may be my spending the past half century in
the maritime world with steam and later diesel ships, but tanks holding
fuel oil were referred to as "bunkers" and "cisterns" referred to
containers or tanks that held water. Not all that important, still a good
thread..... Best Regards - Louis
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL
I have no
personal memories of this, but I have seen (photos...not
personally) and heard that the oil cistern on oil burners was
"pressurized" a bit to help the oil flow. It wasn't..and couldn't
have been much pressure, but just a bit would move the oil quite
well. There, was, of course, a relief valve which had to be
opened, before the filler cap was removed...If someone would forget this
little maneuver, it could create a bit of a mess.
Anybody more familiar with oil burners than me, please add or
subtract to my "ramblings.
Pete
-----Original
Message----- From: 'Patrick Homan' homanfamily@fuse.net [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: CBQ
< CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent:
Thu, Apr 14, 2016 6:49 pm Subject: Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler
Doing?
I find this discussion very interesting, escially the photo of
4003. I did enlarge the picture and it appears that the sand box
had a rounded shape to the cab side. I can’t get my computer to
give a clear image when enlarged. Does any member have a photo of
the top of the oil cistern, showing the oil and sand covers as well as
any other details particular to large oil burners. My background
is coal fired locomotives here in Cinciinnati or in Southeastern KY
(L&N). I am trying to build an accurate cistern to put in a
Bachmann locomotive. My only photos are a set I was able to take
of FW&D #305 in wichita Falls TX. The museum staff that day
was most gracious in letting my climb over the locomotive and
tender. II suspect the large locomotives had a bit different
set-up.
Pat Homan
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing? [1
Attachment]
[Attachment(s) from LZadnichek@aol.com
included below]
April 10, 2016
Pete and Phil - You both get a "gold star" in correctly identifying
the Lincoln roundhouse hostler as pouring sand into the tender sand box
for use in cleaning flues. Since I do not have any gold stars handy, you
get a bonus undated color image of 4003 in dead storage at Lincoln, NE,
probably never to run again. I've both inserted and attached the image.
In the attached image, if you enlarge it, I think you can just see the
sand box to the left in entrance of the gangway.
All Q oil burning steam locomotives had such tender sand boxes, so
modelers can feel free to make two stops under their sand tower, one for
the sand dome on the locomotive and one for the sand box in the tender.
One question I have, how much sand would the tender sand box on the 4003
hold? Would there have been enough sand to fill a 55 gal. drum, more,
less?
To answer Pete's question about a light mounted on the top backside
of the stack so the fireman could judge his fire by the darkness of the
smoke at night, to my knowledge such a device was never used on Q,
C&S or FW&D oil-burning locomotives. However, it was used widely
on Frisco and MOPAC steam locomotives, among other railroads that used
Bunker C oil for fuel.
Since oil-burning locomotives could have their fires "turned off"
between runs rather than having their fires banked like on their
coal-burning siblings, some Q oil-burners had a round stack flap fitted
on a hinge that the fireman could flop over the open stack to keep as
much heat in the boiler as possible until the locomotive was needed
later. This seems to have been a roundhouse added device as some
oil-burners had the stack flap and others didn't.
Anyone else with Lines West oil-burner stories or comments is
welcome to chime-in! Best Regards - Louis
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL
Two old timers
with fine alert minds got it right.
Pete
-----Original
Message----- From: Phil pawnbaw@sbcglobal.net [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: LZadnichek@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com>; cbq < cbq@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Apr 10, 2016
4:45 pm Subject: RE: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing? [2
Attachments]
[Attachment(s) from
Phil included below]
Pumping fresh air into the cab?
Or……maybe filling the sandbox on the
tender. Oil burning locomotives carried a supply of sand
up front on the tender. The fireman had a
small scoop sized to fit a hole in the firedoor and - when
the locomotive was working hard and pulling a
strong draft- he’d toss some sand into the firebox.
The sand scoured the oil soot off of the flue
tubes and produced a puff of black smoke out the stack.
You’ll see this in videos of oil burners – as the
engineer works the locomotive harder the fireman gets
a couple of scoops of sand into the mix – and
there will be a puff or two of black smoke.
Coal burners didn’t have a soot problem when
working. Cinders and assorted real estate kept the flues
clear. However, a coal-burner could get
pretty dirty inside when parked for a while. Then the first move
would produce black rain out the stack that was
as permanent as India ink.
PAW
Group
- This is a little "test" to see how many old timers from Lines West
will remember what the hostler is doing a top the tender in this
undated image of oil-burning CB&Q Class S-4-A 4003 being serviced
at Lincoln, NE. I'm both inserting and attaching this interesting
image:
What
the hostler is doing was once so common place on Lines West
oil-burning locomotives that it was seldom if ever photographed. In
fact, this is the first image I've ever seen that shows such a service
function. The image was taken well prior to November 1960 when 4003
was sold for scrap. Best Regards - Louis
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Posted by: "Patrick Homan" <homanfamily@fuse.net>
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