Louis,
This is a great help. It is nice to clear this up
so I can re-do the bunker on my FW&D ,E4 (modified LMB). The timing is
perfect as I am finishing the installation of a Tsunami decoder and my original
fabricated bunker is on the workbench. Thanks again.
Pat
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing? [2
Attachments]
[Attachment(s) from LZadnichek@aol.com included below]
April 26, 2016
Patrick - In the attached/inserted image of 5632's oil tender taken at
Oregon, IL, the "crooked" pipe facing down at the right front of the tender's
oil bunker is the vent for the relief valve. Also, note from the lifting straps
on the rear of the tender (the straps at front are obscured), the bunker was
fabricated separately to drop into the coal bunker. That is, the back shop just
didn't weld steel sheets across the top of the open coal bunker to enclose it,
an entirely new and separate oil tank was fabricated to custom fit the coal
tender.
![]()
For comparison, here's an inserted/attached image showing the interior of
5633's empty coal-burning tender in the Galesburg, IL, deadline during 1961.
There were a number of steel sheets stretching-up from the bottom to the sides
for reinforcement. Evidently, these sheets were removed to make room for
installing an oil bunker. This will give you some idea of how "big" the oil tank
was that was placed into the tenders of the converted Class O-5-B
locomotives.
![]()
Lastly, getting back to the 5632's oil tender, the bunker tank top opening
at rear is "flanged" meaning that it was supposed to be fastened down with bolts
so oil would not pour out of the tender in case of a derailment where it was
laying on its side. The tender sand box pipe at front off-center has what looks
to be a drop-on lid with hand hold to open/close. There would've been a flexible
steam line from the boiler running out under the cab that was connected to the
tender oil bunker for steam to flow into the heating coils. The control valve
for the steam line would've been located in the cab on the fireman's side. If
you contact the Colorado Railroad Museum, they may be able to take
photographs of 5629's tender oil bunker to further explain:
Hope this generally answers your questions. Best Regards - Louis
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL
In a message dated 4/20/2016 5:23:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing?
The fireman had to be very careful in regulating
the steam which kept the oil warm....If it got too hot it would "boil
over"...I think that you might say that that situation would create a bit of a
mess...and no doubt could produce a bit of somewhat harsh commentary
from the engineer and perhaps others around the engine.
Pete
Louis and others.
Thanks for another great
photo. I noted the safety handrail is also offset to the fireman’s side
as depicted in an earlier photo. Where was the preasure relief valve,
where were the contols for the steam line and finally, where did the steam
line enter the cistern?
-----Original
Message----- From: LZadnichek@aol.com [CBQ]
<CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent:
Fri, Apr 15, 2016 2:00 pm Subject: Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing? [1
Attachment]
[Attachment(s) from LZadnichek@aol.com included below]
April 15, 2016
Pete, Pat and Phil - Of all the digital images in my collection, I
do not have a full tender top image of a Class O-5-B or Class S-4-A oil
burner. The closest I have is an undated partial overhead view taken of Class
O-5-B No. 5614 in Lincoln, NE, both inserted and attached below:
If you slightly enlarge the attached image, you can see the tank top
opening for the oil bunker at far rear behind the safety handrail.
Unfortunately, you can not see any tender sand box top opening.
Pete is partially correct when he says the oil bunker was slightly
pressurized. There were steam heating coils within the bunker to heat the
Bunker C fuel oil to make it "thin" enough to flow through the pipe to the
firebox atomizer. When the oil was fully heated, it would expand and create a
slight pressure that would escape around the edge of the tank top opening (you
could smell the hot oil fumes).
Two oil-burning Class O-5-B locomotives are preserved, the 5614 at St.
Joseph, MO, and the 5629 at the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, CO.
Perhaps, a Group member living close to either locomotive could visit and
measure/photograph the tender sand box, as well as the tender top side for
placement of openings, then share with the rest of us. Should pretty much be
the same as on other large oil burners.
Regarding terminology, it may be my spending the past half century in the
maritime world with steam and later diesel ships, but tanks holding fuel oil
were referred to as "bunkers" and "cisterns" referred to containers or tanks
that held water. Not all that important, still a good thread..... Best Regards
- Louis
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL
I have no personal
memories of this, but I have seen (photos...not personally) and heard
that the oil cistern on oil burners was "pressurized" a bit to help the oil
flow. It wasn't..and couldn't have been much pressure, but just a bit
would move the oil quite well. There, was, of course, a relief valve
which had to be opened, before the filler cap was removed...If someone would
forget this little maneuver, it could create a bit of a mess.
Anybody more familiar with oil burners than me, please add or subtract
to my "ramblings.
Pete
-----Original
Message----- From: 'Patrick Homan' homanfamily@fuse.net [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: CBQ
< CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu,
Apr 14, 2016 6:49 pm Subject: Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing?
I find this discussion very interesting, escially the photo of
4003. I did enlarge the picture and it appears that the sand box had a
rounded shape to the cab side. I can’t get my computer to give a clear
image when enlarged. Does any member have a photo of the top of the
oil cistern, showing the oil and sand covers as well as any other details
particular to large oil burners. My background is coal fired
locomotives here in Cinciinnati or in Southeastern KY (L&N). I am
trying to build an accurate cistern to put in a Bachmann locomotive.
My only photos are a set I was able to take of FW&D #305 in wichita
Falls TX. The museum staff that day was most gracious in letting my
climb over the locomotive and tender. II suspect the large locomotives
had a bit different set-up.
Pat Homan
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing? [1
Attachment]
[Attachment(s) from LZadnichek@aol.com
included below]
April 10, 2016
Pete and Phil - You both get a "gold star" in correctly identifying the
Lincoln roundhouse hostler as pouring sand into the tender sand box for use
in cleaning flues. Since I do not have any gold stars handy, you get a bonus
undated color image of 4003 in dead storage at Lincoln, NE, probably never
to run again. I've both inserted and attached the image. In the attached
image, if you enlarge it, I think you can just see the sand box to the left
in entrance of the gangway.
All Q oil burning steam locomotives had such tender sand boxes, so
modelers can feel free to make two stops under their sand tower, one for the
sand dome on the locomotive and one for the sand box in the tender. One
question I have, how much sand would the tender sand box on the 4003 hold?
Would there have been enough sand to fill a 55 gal. drum, more, less?
To answer Pete's question about a light mounted on the top backside of
the stack so the fireman could judge his fire by the darkness of the smoke
at night, to my knowledge such a device was never used on Q, C&S or
FW&D oil-burning locomotives. However, it was used widely on Frisco and
MOPAC steam locomotives, among other railroads that used Bunker C oil for
fuel.
Since oil-burning locomotives could have their fires "turned off"
between runs rather than having their fires banked like on their
coal-burning siblings, some Q oil-burners had a round stack flap fitted on a
hinge that the fireman could flop over the open stack to keep as much heat
in the boiler as possible until the locomotive was needed later. This seems
to have been a roundhouse added device as some oil-burners had the stack
flap and others didn't.
Anyone else with Lines West oil-burner stories or comments is welcome
to chime-in! Best Regards - Louis
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL
Two old timers with
fine alert minds got it right.
Pete
-----Original
Message----- From: Phil pawnbaw@sbcglobal.net [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: LZadnichek@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com>; cbq < cbq@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Apr 10, 2016 4:45
pm Subject: RE: [CBQ] What's The Hostler Doing? [2 Attachments]
[Attachment(s) from Phil
included below]
Pumping fresh air into the cab?
Or……maybe filling the sandbox on the tender.
Oil burning locomotives carried a supply of sand
up front on the tender. The fireman had a small
scoop sized to fit a hole in the firedoor and - when
the locomotive was working hard and pulling a strong
draft- he’d toss some sand into the firebox.
The sand scoured the oil soot off of the flue tubes
and produced a puff of black smoke out the stack.
You’ll see this in videos of oil burners – as the
engineer works the locomotive harder the fireman gets
a couple of scoops of sand into the mix – and there
will be a puff or two of black smoke.
Coal burners didn’t have a soot problem when working.
Cinders and assorted real estate kept the flues
clear. However, a coal-burner could get pretty
dirty inside when parked for a while. Then the first move
would produce black rain out the stack that was as
permanent as India ink.
PAW
Group
- This is a little "test" to see how many old timers from Lines West will
remember what the hostler is doing a top the tender in this undated image
of oil-burning CB&Q Class S-4-A 4003 being serviced at Lincoln, NE.
I'm both inserting and attaching this interesting
image:
What
the hostler is doing was once so common place on Lines West oil-burning
locomotives that it was seldom if ever photographed. In fact, this is the
first image I've ever seen that shows such a service function. The image
was taken well prior to November 1960 when 4003 was sold for scrap. Best
Regards - Louis
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Posted by: "Patrick Homan" <homanfamily@fuse.net>
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