Louis and Bill,
Thanks fir the interesting observation, and I must say I agree. I went back to some photos I have collected of Savanna's roundhouse area. Many of these photos were taken during steam fantrips. Photos from 1957 and 1958 clearly show the steel coaling tower in place next to the sand tower. The distance from the coaling tower to the sand tower is about the distance from a steam locomotive's sand dome to the tender coal bunker. Close enough that the coaling tower would be visible in most photos of a steam locomotive sitting at the sand tower. In one of these photos you can also see the ash hoist down by the boiler house that is clearly seen in the photo from 1957 that Bill posted. In all these photos the towers are all painted black or more likely a black weathered mineral red (a reddish tint definitely shows up in some of my photos).
Now fast-forward to a photo I have of 4-8-4 5632 at Savanna on 9-2-1961 as well as a photo probably taken the same time but a different angle. The sand tower is clearly silver. There is no coaling chute in sight although it should be clearly towering over the tender. And while it is hard to see from the one photo, there doesn't seem to be an ash/cinder hoist either.
So my guess is that sometime between 1959 and 1961 the steam locomotive servicing equipment (coal and ash/cinder towers) were removed, the sand tower was painted silver, and probably the track used for hopper cars and/or gondolas to remove ash/cinders was also pulled up, just leaving Track 77 for servicing the sand house. The aerial flood photo clearly shows all this equipment so it has to be pre-1965, and as noted before, probably about 10-15 years earlier. Now if we can find the date of a major flood in Savanna around 1955-1960 we could have a better date for the aerial photo. And that does seem to explain what happened to the extra track.
Tom Mack Cincinnati, OH
---In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, <LZadnichek@...> wrote :
July 24, 2015 Tom - I agree with Bill. Definitely NOT 4960 and 1965. The Milwaukee
dieselized their Savanna-Ottumwa-Kansas City route in the early to mid-1950s.
The Q's Savanna-LaCrosse-St. Paul route was dieselized (except for occasional
later fan trips) by 1956. I believe this image is at least 15 years older than
1965. I can't quite identify the Q steam locomotive near the round house.
Could be an O-1-A Mikado or a S Class Pacific. Best Regards - Louis Louis Zadnichek II Fairhope, AL In a message dated 7/24/2015 1:33:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:
Tom,
I can't help you with your question, but I am pretty certain that the
photo is not 1965 and the steam locomotive at the Q shop may not be 4960. If
you look at the adjacent Milwaukee Road yard to the upper left of the photo,
there are at least two and possibly three Milwaukee Road steam locomotives
operating there. One is on a cut of cars just to the left of the Q water
tower, another is at the shop or office building to the far left and a third
is possibly at the far east end of the yard based on the column of smoke. I
don't believe the Milwaukee Road had any active steam locomotives during the
1965 flood. My guess is that the photo dates to at least 10 or 15 years
earlier. One piece of info that i can provide. I visited the Savanna engine
facilities twice in 1957 on Q fan trips, once in September with hudson #3003
and later in October with O-5 #5631. The coal dock was still there although it
was a small structure. Attached is a photo of it taken on 09/01/1957. I don't
think that the coaling facility had much in the way of capacity. The hoppers
that you referred to may have been used to feed the coal tower.
Bill Barber Gravois Mills, MO
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Jul 24, 2015 8:05 am (PDT) . Posted by:I
have uploaded a track chart of the Savanna yard engine facility and
roundhouse area. It was taken from a much larger chart of the entire yard
that shows all the tracks, water mains, fire hydrants, electric lines, etc.
So it is pretty detailed. I can't find the date on the track chart but due
to the fact that the chart only shows the sand tower and not the ash pit,
coaling facility, etc., I can only assume it is from the late 1960's. In
particular note Track 77 on the left side of the map that runs above the
sand house. It is shown as 564' feet long. Track 76 I the lead track that
runs all the way to the turntable. A second turntable lead, Track 75, splits
off of Track 76. Track 78 also splits off of Track 76 and runs by the
roundhouse, between Tracks 43 and 44. Now here is where
things get interesting. At https://www.flickr.com/photos/45436499@N02/7098031087https://www.flickr.com/photos/45436499@N02/7098031087 is a great aerial view of Savanna
Yard during the flood of 1965. You can clearly see the sand tower. It looks
like the coaling hoist or cinder hoist for the ash pit (sorry, ‘m not a
steam guy so sometimes the terms escape me) is still there behind the
sanding tower. And… there is also an extra track between the sand tower and
the sand house! This track is not shown on the track chart. So the question
is, what track is this and when was it removed? Did it possibly come out
when the coal or ash hoist was removed? Does anyone know when the steam
servicing equipment and possibly this extra track was removed from Savanna
Yard? I am
finishing up my Savanna Yard roundhouse area and these are the last tracks I
need to put in. As I am modeling from 1966 to the end I am now going to put
in the steam locomotive equipment, just the sand tower. So now the question
is do I put in this second track or not? On a related topic, does
anyone know what the three hoppers and two boxcars are doing on Track 77
behind the sand house? Some photos I have show MOW equipment there, such as
an orange outside braced boxcar. Was this for the incoming sand? Are those
possibly ballast cars? There are also two hoppers sitting down at the end of
the track by the steam servicing equipment. Perhaps coal cars? Or for
removing cinders? Tom Mack Cincinnati, OH
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Posted by: thommack@yahoo.com
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