I'm willing to concede that there seem to be some inconsistencies with the view being at Beardstown, particularly the ash hoist, and the fact that Bill Kuba was from Cedar Rapids and did most of his photography in Iowa makes Ottumwa a more likely location. I have no records that would confirm the shopping at Denver in January 1955, but that would certainly provide a reason for the M-4 being in an otherwise unlikely location. Hol
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com From: CBQ@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 13:58:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [CBQ] Location ID
May 22, 2015
Nolen, Hol and Group - If you compare Hol's image of 647 with the Ottumwa
chute in the background against the image of 6317 and the chute on page 8 of
Burlington Route Steam Finale (that we know is misidentified as being taken at
Creston), there are some interesting similarities.
One, accepting that the images are taken from different directions, the
single tall utility pole with clusters of insulators to the immediate left
of the chute in the Finale image looks just like the one behind the 647's cab in
Hol's image.
Two, the timber construction of the sand storage pile looks the same in
both images.
Three, the heavy timber support framing beneath both chutes looks the same
in both images. However, whereas there is cross bracing at the bottom of
the bunker in the Finale image, the bracing doesn't show in Hol's image which
would be the opposite side (???).
Since the Finale book states on page 8 that 6317 was in route
from Beardstown to Denver on January 8, 1955 for heavy repairs when the image
was taken, Hol, can you confirm that 6317 was overhauled at the Denver
Shops in early 1955?
May be confirmation of that will help us figure out whether the images
in question were taken at Ottumwa or Beardstown. I still think Ottumwa is
a good possibility. Best Regards - Louis
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL
In a message dated 5/21/2015 9:43:06 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:
Gentlemen,
I
hate to stir up a pot of controversy but I disagree with the identification of
Dave's photo as being Beardstown. I'm more inclined to vote for
Ottumwa. I don't remember Beardstown having an ash hoist like the one in
the photo in question. Also, the concrete foundation of the Beardstown
coal chute was much taller than that in the photo. Look at Charles
Franzen's photo of the Beardstown coal chute. Also note that the
Beardstown chute has about a 5-6' covered approach attachment on the center
track. Based on Hol's photo and diagram of the Ottumwa chute and the
mis-identification of the location in the picture in Stagner's
'Burlington Route Steam Finale' on page 56 and what appears to
be the same mistake for the picture on page 8 in combination with the fact
that 6317 appears in both pictures, I surmise that Mr. Kuba took pictures from
opposite side of the Ottumwa coal chute the same day. Ergo I vote for
Ottumwa
Nolen
Null
From:
CBQ@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday,
May 21, 2015 12:50 PM
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re:
[CBQ] Location ID
Hol -
Appreciate the Ottumwa chute image. I don't remember the "lighter" concrete
bunker panels, but I suspect they were eventually sooted-up like the rest of
the chute. Note 647 was trailing what appears to be an
auxiliary tender. First time I've seen an auxiliary tender used with a
Class K locomotive, unless the former tender belonged to a work train. It did
appear to be painted a lighter color, most likely orange. What do you
think? 647 was also a former Suburban Territory commuter locomotive from
the empty turbo-generator platform located between the sand and steam domes.
Best Regards - Louis
[Attachment(s) from Hol Wagner
included below]
Louis:
Here's
what I've got for the Ottumwa chute. It looks like the delivery/supply
track is slightly elevated, but not nearly as much as the one at
Beardstown.
Hol
To:
CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 20
May 2015 15:53:01 -0400
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Location ID
Hol
- Thanks. Do you have a good image of the Ottumwa coal chute to compare
against the image we're talking about. I do not. Does anyone else out
there have such an image to share? This is going back some 55-plus years,
but, like you, I do not remember an elevated supply track on the Ottumwa
chute, either. It was more or less a flat supply track as I remember
walking along side the chute. I don't remember the concrete
sides, just that it was a "timber" chute with a tar paper roof that was
mostly missing with some remnants flapping when ever the wind blew
strong. Best Regards - Louis
I
think it's pretty clearly the Beardstown chute. The Ottumwa
chute was considerably different and did not have an elevated supply track
(i.e., on a low fill) as did the Beardstown chute. Also,
the wooden sides of the Ottumwa chute were replaced with concrete
slabs back in the 1920s or
'30s.
Hol
To:
CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 20
May 2015 13:04:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Location ID [1
Attachment]
[Attachment(s)
from LZadnichek@aol.com included
below]
Hol
- The same image appears on page 56 of Burlington Route Steam Finale by
Lloyd Stagner. The image is identified as having been taken at Creston,
IA, in January 1955. The image is credited to W.S. Kuba. There is a second
image of 6317 on page 8 also by W.S. Kuba and identified as being at
Creston.
Of
course, the both images are misidentified as to location as the Creston
coal chute was constructed of concrete, not wood, as I
recall. Personally, I think both images were taken at Ottumwa, IA, as
I have another image of 6317 identified as having been taken Ottumwa in
January 1955. I've attached that image.
Dad
was Ottumwa Division Supt. in the early 1960s and I remember the wood coal
chute and roundhouse there. Sure looks like Ottumwa to me. I remember
Dad was concerned about the chute's structural integrity and wanted it
torn down as pieces were beginning to fall off of it. Best Regards -
Louis
[Attachment(s)
from Hol Wagner included below]
Dave:
That's
the Beardstown coal chute, moved to Illinois from Kansas City in
1943.
Hol
To:
CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed,
20 May 2015 04:38:36 -0400
Subject: [CBQ] Location ID [1
Attachment]
[Attachment(s)
from Dave Lotz included below]
Attached
is an image that was shared by Leanne Edna Anderson on Facebook this
week from the Michael Lemberger collection that is not identified as to
its location. Any ideas?
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Posted by: Hol Wagner <holpennywagner@msn.com>
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