RE: [CBQ] Re: E Unit & F Unit Paint Schemes?

[HOL WAGNER <holpennywagner@msn.com>]

Sorry about all the typos that got through in the message below.  The only really major one is in the third paragraph and should relate that the nose ornamentation on the freight F's was a stylized PAIR of wings.
 
Hol
 

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To: cbq@yahoogroups.com
From: holpennywagner@msn.com
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 14:01:37 -0700
Subject: RE: [CBQ] Re: E Unit & F Unit Paint Schemes?

 

The repainting of depots into white with no separate color for trim began in 1955 or even the year before, well prior to the 1959 adoption of the new image paint schemes for diesels.  It was done purely for economy and in hindsight was a very poor choice of color, as structures that were painted white were of wooden construction and the white color simply emphasized the weathering of the wood, something the Indian red (which was actually the same color as mineral red) tended to hide.  And of course dirt and grime were extremely visible on the white structures.  Perhaps the worst result of this was on the two-story depot at Guernsey, Wyo., the Q-C&S terminal where Colorado Fuel & Iron Co.'s Colorado & Wyoming Railroad delivered iron ore to the Burlington for transport to the Pueblo (Minnequa), Colo., steel mill.  The ore was hematite, the very definition of mineral red, and dust from this ore soon turned the white Guernsey a sickly shade of pink.
 
As for changing the nose striping of the E's from black to red, if one knows the original purpose of those stripes -- to imitate the cab windows and air intake vents of shovelnose Zephyr units -- the red makes little sense.  The side striiping of the E's was red from the start, wich also made little sense.  If the railroad wanted to employ Chinese red on the E's, a complete change in the paint scheme would have been more logical.
 
A for the F's, the "Grayback" color was a WWII imitation of silver or aluminum, when aluminum pigment for paint was not available due to wartime restrictions.  Rock Island used this same color on its E-units for the same reason, and Pullman painted modernized sleeping cars this color if they ran in trains that were otherwise of lightweight stainless steel construction.  Sleepers of the Texas Zephyr and Zephyr Rocket are examples of this.  After the war Pullman switched to a darker gray color for these cars, but Rock Island's "Rocket Tower," for one, remained in the lighter color until it was scrapped in the mid-1960s.  As far as using red in the Q's F-unit paint scheme, all the striping of the units, including the nose ornamentation that was a stylized paint of wings, was red right from the start, so employing more red would have required a redesign of the basic paint scheme.  I have seen painted models of F's in the Chinse red and gray hood unit scheme, and all I can say is, it ain't pretty!
 
Bear in mind, too, that the Q chose to leave the switchers in the "Blackbird" scheme, though of course the FW&D decided its NW2 No 605, newly equipped with MU, was a road unit and should wear the Chinese red and gray colors.  Though it looked very attractive in this scheme, Chicago quickly let the sudsidiary know in no uncertain terms that no more units were to be painted that way.  I might mention here that in 1962 or 1963, when I was regularly corresponding with Al Rung, Burlington's director of public relations, I did a full color ink and watercolor drawing of a Q EMD switcher in the Chinese red scheme -- this was several years before the FW&D repaint -- and sent it to Al, suggesting that the switcher fleet would look great in those colors.  He replied, very politely to a young man of 17 or 18, that the black and gray scheme would remain the Burlington standard for switchers, period.
 
Hol 

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To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: jonathanharris@earthlink.net
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 17:54:03 +0000
Subject: [CBQ] Re: E Unit & F Unit Paint Schemes?

 

The issue to me isn't whether they "should" have changed from black stripes to red on their E units. It was a minor detail that formed a small part of a larger change in corporate aesthetics which included the switch from the blackbird to Chinese red for road switchers (and coincidentally, the repainting of depots from red/green to white). I don't know what the reasoning was, but I'd guess it was an attempt to create a bolder, more modern, more visible image. They may have left the covered wagons the same because they were already looking to replacing them.

Since my own interests are mainly pre-1960, I'd vote for black nose stripes. But the red does fit better with the other changes in Q paint schemes (and as I said, on the E units, the difference seems trivial). I do sincerely feel that the blackbird scheme was one of the most beautiful adopted by any American railroad, though I have friends who say just that about Chinese red and white. And (sorry) repainting those elegant, dignified red/green depots in white was a travesty.

jonathan

--- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Levine <sjl_prodigynet@...> wrote:
>
> I liked the black, but the red was quite striking. Depends on the day which I like better.
>
> --- On Thu, 11/8/12, bdurham260 <bdurham260@...> wrote:
>
> From: bdurham260 <bdurham260@...>
> Subject: [CBQ] E Unit & F Unit Paint Schemes?
> To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, November 8, 2012, 11:57 AM
>
>
> So the F units were left as grey backs when the Q went from black to red. The E units had their nose stipes and "grills" changed from black to red.
>
>
>
> Where do you fall on the issue?
>
>
>
> No difference
>
>
>
> Should have left them black
>
>
>
> Liked the red much better
>
>
>
> Why do you feel the way you do?
>
>
>
> I am not so much interested in percentage break down (hence no poll taken) but what your thoughts are on the color and why the Q changed one type but not the other covered wagon.
>
>
>
> For me I have always been partial to the black nose stripes. I think it looked better with the stainless steel. Since the left the F units alone I would have done the same thing with E's.
>
>
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> I know that by the time of the switchover what the stripes and grills were supposed to simulate had been lost to time but I still think they look better.
>
>
>
> So, what do you think?
>
>
>
> Brian Durham
>

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