here's the answer, though i'm not sure i understand. teb
Philip Weibler wrote:
Hello
Pete, John, and All -
Back in 1960 I was switching at Blue Island and sorting out the
'shorts' so that when we doubled everything
up they fell in station order. 'Double' is another of those railroad
words, since it usually involved three or four
tracks.
Anyway.....I got cut off as a switchman at the same time they needed
some brakemen on the road so's I put
my hand up. I quickly learned that working the Red Ball Pick-up was
equal to walking to Silvis, since we all were down on the ballast at
every station. And, yes, the trick at Joliet was to have the pick-up in
reverse
station order - with the first station set-out on the east end. When
the pick-up was coupled to our train those
cars came against the cars that were first out from Blue Island - all
for the same station. Once those cars were set out the cars from Joliet
for the second station came against the cars in the train that were for
the
second station......and on down the line. Any cars picked up were
handled behind the engines and ended up
in Silvis.
When we were done at each station and had the train coupled up on the
main we would give the engineer a
big highball, climb on the boxcar in front of us and go over the tops
to the cut for the next station - no sitting down on the engine. I
remember one time when the engineer was the only person on the train -
the conductor, two brakemen and even the fireman were down on the
ground throwing switches and making joints. What we fondly remember as
"the good old days"..............PAW
From:
"John D. Mitchell, Jr." <cbqrr47@yahoo.com>
To:
"CBQ@yahoogroups.com" <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, October 18,
2012 11:48:52 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ]
Roustabout
The only thing I can think of is an old Beardstown Div.
trick. That is to set out one the cuts westbound and the other
eastbound.
Speaking of "station order" and
related matters here's a little situation we had on the Rock Island.
I'll state the problem and then ask you switchmen and "timeslip
artists" to come up wi;th the solution. This problem had arisen and
been "fixed" before I came on the job of Asst. TM at Joliet, but it did
impress me as a "creative solution" and we used it every night.
Each night after the hotshots got out of Blue Island for Silvis
there would be a job called which resembeled what was called on another
railroad as"The P....Cutter". This job was known as the Red Ball
Pickup. For those of you young guys who are not famiiar with the term
"Redball". Back in the day "hot loads" were known as "Red Ball"..and
were designated as such by a.....are you ready for it....red ball
sticker on the waybill. This practice had gone out long before I came
on the scene, but, as all things railroad seem to do, the name carried
on.
The stated purpose of this train was to peddle the "Illinois
Shorts"..Towns Joliet and west...ei Minooka, Morris, Seneca, Ottawa,
LaSalle Spring Valley Bureau etc. and pick up the loads at these
points and take them to Silvis to be humped in time to be put on the
next day's "hotshots" for the west and north.
This train came out of Blue Island with his consist in station
order with through cars on the rear end. These through cars were known
as "westbounds". At Joliet the RBPU would set out his Joliet cars and
pick up the Illinois Shorts coming out of Joliet. Well you can see
that a straight pickup setout would put the Illinois shorts in two
different locations in the train...ie those shorts out of Joliet would
end up in a different place in the train than those Illiinois shorts
out of Blue Island....thus the RBPU would have to make two separate
setouts at some stations...Well the "fly in the ointment" regarding
this matter was that those towns west of Joliet through Bureau were
served by road switchers headquartered at MOrris, Joliet, LaSalle and
DePue. These were individual switching districts and a train making
more than one pickup or setout at any of these towns would create a
"blizzard" of timeslips for road crews doing switchman's work.
Those involved sometime before I arrived had worked out an
ingenious scheme for alleviating the problem and it worked out very
well and eliminated the double setout-pickups at the Illinois towns.
I don't have "five silver dollars" (remember Doctor IQ John),
for a prize but I'd be interested in seeing who can come up with the
maneuver that solved the problem.
Pete
-----Original
Message----- From: John D. Mitchell, Jr. <cbqrr47@yahoo.com> To:
CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2012 8:50 pm
Subject: Re: Fwd: [CBQ] Roustabout
Leo
The conductor was right about way freight rate and later
agreements made that clear. Besides all of the lapbacks and side trips
made mileage a nightmare. There was a local agreement for the
Metropolis Local that the engine crew would be paid YARD rate and the
trainman and conductor rates would be made HOURLY way freight rate i.e.
daily rate divided by 8 and time and a half after 8 hours. This was
after the Metropolis switching limits and yard engines were abolished.
I don't believe
this was done anywhere else on the Q. This ,of course, did
not observe the "Unit Rule". In your case, I don't know how the Super
got around all the p/u's and s/o's plus all the in-route switching. The
local's train was certainly not in "station order". (For those who are
not familar with the unit rule, it is that if one part of a crew
receives a higher rate then the entire crew i.e. the unit, gets the
higher rate.)
John
----- Forwarded Message -----
John,
Thanks for the response confirming my understanding of
Roustabout service. Now here's the specific example I have stumbled
upon dated 1896. I ask you and others to pull out your Q maps of the
Aurora Div dated prior to 1932 (thats key) and follow along on an
interesting true to life labor /mgt dispute. What rate of pay would you
expect a Roustabout doing all this switching, as you describe, to earn:
thru frt,or way frt (as road switcher didn't exist until the mid
1960s) ?
Here we go:
The Condr. on the "Roustabout" based at Mendota,IL writes a
letter to the Aurora Lodge of the BRT asking for the local chairman to
pursue a change in rate of pay for his job as he does not believe thru
frt rate is correct. He goes on to explain in detail that after leaving
their orginating terminal of Mendota,IL eastbound they proceed to
Earlville where the switch out the eastward & westward sidings for
cars going into Earlville proper, and onto Ottawa on the Fox River
Branch. They spot the local Earlville business and take the Ottawa and
Baker cars with them. They spot and pull the grain and coal at Baker
and then go on to Ottawa(via Burgess Jct) and return to Earlville. They
then gather up cars for Radley,Paw Paw and Shabbona along with all
North (St Paul,LaCrosse,etc) and Rockford,IL cars.
Upon reaching Shabbona(via Paw Paw) they switch out the sidings
there and put the Rockford and North cars into blocks for the trains
going that way. They take the Shabbona propers to downtown Shabbona for
the way frt to spot and take back with them any cars for the "mainline
stations and points west"in route back to Mendota. They typically can
spend 3-4 hours switiching at Shabbona.Once back at Earlville they put
west cars on the westward siding and east cars on the eastward siding
and then finally proceed back to Mendota and tie up.
The local chairman writes the Supt who responds that the thru
frt rate is correct for the job. Later in the file the same Supt writes
to agents at Mendota and Shabbona asking them to ensure that the
Roustabout has instructions and does indeed switch out the North and
Rockford cars from the other cars on the sidings at Shabbona so the
North bound wayfreights are not delayed switching out this traffic at
Shabbona.
Besdies the shear volume of switching I was stopped short by the
routing of cars vs what I saw in the early days of BN(which I am
assuming was left over from the Q) in that Eola and Cicero were used to
block all this business.
Bottom line, back in the day a road job didn't mean just putting
up your feet under the cupola window.!
Leo Phillipp
A "roustabout" was an old term for what we would call a
"road switcher" job. They typically
ran for shorter runs and did more switching that most local or way
freights. Some operated in switching limits while others did not. Of
course, the ones in switching limits were manned by yard crews.
Any body familiar w/the term Roustabout as used by the Q ? There
were at least two road jobs officially referred to as Roustabouts on
the Aurora Div from 1890 to the 1950s There was also one switch job at
Eola yard referred to as the Roustabout. If any one has their copy of
the "schedule " handy I sure would appreciate the verbage as mine is in
the attic. I am trying to understand the crews complaint/claim from the
1890's. Thanks Leo Phillipp Ps- thinking about an Article on this as it
would enlighten us all how cars were switched and routed 100 plus years
ago vs today's blocking schemes Sent from my iPhone
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