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[CBQ] Re: JJH and the Q

To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CBQ] Re: JJH and the Q
From: "Phillips, III, J.A." <whstlpnk@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 03:34:39 -0400 (EDT)
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Charlie Vlk wrote on the Q list:

...This may be heresy, but..
...When James J. Hill was trying to get the GN and NP into Chicago the CB&Q was 
not his first choice.   He would have preferred getting the Milwaukee Road or 
the Wisconsin Central/Soo Line. He was of the opinion that The Q was a poorly 
built railroad and stated that it had more curves and grades on the prairies 
than the GN had crossing the Rockies.
...While the CB&Q was a progressive railroad in many ways, in the early days I 
am beginning to believe that The Empire Builder was correct. The CB&Q had a 
continuous program of line relocations, curve easing, grade reductions and 
other general improvements after the turn of the century that suggest that 
there was plenty to do. 

I think you may have gotten a hold of some bad info on that one. I can think of 
a guy in Montana who would make this sort of argument, generally based on what 
he likes to say is "reading between the lines" of corporate correspondence, but 
what always appeared to me to be reading "into" the lines to me. As a matter of 
fact, the NP had the WC in its pocket for a while from Villard's return to the 
Board ca. 1886-7, until the second reorganization in the wake of the Panic of 
1893. In typical Villard fashion, he leased it from his cronies without 
bothering to figure out if the rate he was going to pay was worth it. (Wasn't.) 
All three of the big Hill components suffered from the rough-and-ready era of 
railroading, all three dumped money back into the plant for years to come to 
sort out some of the more interesting engineering feats of the construction 
era. GN's Bob Downing made a point which stuck in my head, noting that 
something like 40 percent of the much-vaunted GN wound up on a line relocation 
_after_ its golden spike. I presume the NP put up similar numbers. As for 
poorly built, Hill and the NP didn't put the Q in their pocket until about the 
turn-of-the-century, by which time all three roads were already well on their 
upgrading their plants phase (as was EHH on the UP). Why on earth Hill would 
agree to the _massive_ two-hundred-per-share asked for by Charles Elliott 
Perkins if he thought the Q was a second-rate property is... unbelievable. 
Harriman wouldn't meet it, and as far as I know, Hill never courted any road 
but the Q as St. Paul's access to Chicago and the Middle West. As it was, the Q 
was the big earner of Hill's big three anyway, and whenever mergers were 
trotted out prior to 1955, St. Paul would never agree to let go of the Q in 
order to consummate the deal. (I note the 1925-33 merger work under Elliott and 
Budd almost got the Federal green light ca. 1930-3, but only if it came with 
divestiture of the Q. No deal.)

FWIW
John Phillips
Seattle


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