It just occured to me, also at Zeigler, the Q ran over the MP to serve the
Royalton mine but again no interchange.
--- On Fri, 12/24/10, Gerald Edgar <vje68@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Gerald Edgar <vje68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CBQ] Interchanges, Codewords & MErry Christmas!
To: cbq@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 10:09 PM
Another good example of RR's having a physical jct, maybe even running over
each other but NOT interchanging; tks John.
I also caught a typo in my original post: RR's NOT interchanging with CB&Q but
wjose cars showed up on the Burlington: Utah Coal Route (not 'Cola' although I
was drinking Coca-Cola while typing!)
Gerald
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: cbqrr47@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 20:05:40 -0800
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Interchanges, Codewords & MErry Christmas!
Gerald
Herrin, IL was another interesting place. The Q had track connections both with
the IC and MP but it was not a regular inchange point. Indeed it operated over
the MP to serve the Seymour mine and the IC to reach the Bobby Dick mine.The MP
performed car haul service from the Utility mine and Zeigler #4 mine to Herrin
for the Q. The Q preformed car haul service from the Morgan mine to Herrin for
both the IC and MP. Likewise at Zeigler the Q, IC and MP all operated over C,Z
& G but did not inchange here.
--- On Fri, 12/24/10, Gerald Edgar <vje68@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Gerald Edgar <vje68@hotmail.com>
Subject: [CBQ] Interchanges, Codewords & MErry Christmas!
To: cbq@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 9:31 PM
>From a May 1, 1940 CB&Q Distribution Chart, updated (ink notations by L.V.
>Petsch) into early "50's for the use of "Supt Transportation, Car Accountant,
>Car Distributors & Agents"
NOTE: all data was for CB&Q proper; C&S and FtW&D had their own 'chart' & rules.
Cipher Code: 13 terms for Auto & Furniture Cars (either 50' or 36/40' with 10'
or higher doors or Evans Loading devices); 23 terms for Box cars; 17 terms
forCoal Cars (hoppers, open & closed AND gondolas); 6 terms for Flat Cars; 4
terms for Refrigerator Cars; 12 terms for Stock Cars and 2 terms for Tank Cars.
The terms are all 'words' of 4 to 6 letters with A words for Auto/Furniture
cars, B for Box, C for Coal, F for Flat, R for Refrigerator, S for Stock & T
for Tanks. Examples:
Abate = System 50' Furniture car less than 10' high, Acid for a Foreign car of
same dimensions. Aloud = 50' System Auto Car 10' or higher; Alum for Foreign
car of same dimensions.
Basil & Bath were for System & Foreign flour box cars; Bead & Belay for System
& Foreign Grain box cars and Bilk for either System or Foreign Grain box cars
grouped together; Bite & Bliss for System & Foreign sugar box cars with Bog for
System or Foreign; similarly Boat, Bosh, Bow for cement box cars (bagged in
those days!) and Bridge for Rough freight (hides, etc).
Cape was System coal cars (drop-end series 76500-76999); Case for System coal
cars (16 door 81000-83000); Cash for System coal cars (Wooden series
85000-88699); Chafe & Chew for H&B Work Cars 215000-215499, 80,000# capy &
217000-217749, 100,000# capy respectively. Clip was Hart Selective Ballast
Cars, 220000-220599.
Cast was System gondola (presumably 40') as Cave was system mill gondolas with
Cede for System 65' gons.
Fend, Fife & Flip were 40, 45 & 50' System flats . Race was System
refrigerators except Rank for Ice reefers in series 39000.
Stock cars ranged from 36' & 40' to single (36' System = Scoop; 40 System =
Scar) & double deck (Score, Settle Scarp = System, foreign or combination of
ownership)
Tank Cars were simply either Tackle for System or Tamper for Foreign.
40 Misc cypher words ranged from an obvious "Cleanfeet" (disinfect livestock)
to Native = Until further notice and Twist = May we use system equipment? Words
began with B, C, F, I, P, R, S, T, V, W & Y (Yawl - referring to your mailgram
& Yelp - referring to our mailgram) Other interesting terms were Warp - will
you accept? and Web - will accept. One that jumps out is 'Slam' (if a car
accountant could not find a record of a car, he put 'Slam' on his '46' Car
Report with the Car Distributor to immediately verify car # & initials; if
'Slam' appeared twice for a particular car, the problem was to be handled by
special wire i.e. don't "lose" a car!) Another good term was 'Riot' (Routed via
your station) and Totter (Do not use System equipment, will protect with
suitable foreign car from 'x' RR) and 'Veto' - "Rush shipment, see no delay!"
Now for Junction Points (where cars without a direct connection to CB&Q were to
be routed depending which of 6 regions they were bound for. So for example
Maine Central (Group 1), cars would be routed from various points on the
Burlington to the 10 Jct points in Group #1 with a Western Pacific car (Group
4) being routed to any of that group's Junctions. This info will help those of
you wishing to be protypical in blocking your cars. IE even if you model an
area in Group 3, foreign cars being returned to southern points would be
grouped with Group 5 & 6 cars.
Group 1 (Eastern Loading): Beardstown, Chicago, Congress Park (via IHB), Eola
(via EJ&E), Litchfield, Peoria, Streator, Smithboro, Sorento, St. Louis
Terminals & Zearing (All in Illinois)
Group 2 (Northern Loading): Galena, Monmouth, Peoria, Sterling & Tri-Cities
(Davenport, Moline & Rock Island); Clinton, Council Bluffs, Des Moines, Dubuque
& Sioux City, IA; Twin Cities; Billings & Laurel , Montana and Omaha, NE.
Group 3 (Northwestern Loading): Council Bluffs & Sioux City, IA; Denver;
Billings & Laurel and Twin Cities
Group 4 (Western Loading): Denver and any Missouri River junctions
Group 5 (South & Southwestern Loading): St. Louis terminals; K.C. and St. Joe,
MO; Denver; Atchison, Concordia & leavenworth, KS
Group 6 (South & Southeastern Loading): Centralia, Smithboro, Sorento & St.
Louis terminals; Kansas City, MO and Paducah, KY.
Now which RR's did the Q cite as "indirect connection cars that frequently show
up on our lines" Note: good info for accurate modeling consists! Note too, even
in 'the day' there were many small short lines yet not all such lines are
listed in this booklet (there were 600+ RR's in the USA in the 1950's). Thus
the small lines listed had interchange equipment and were active with some
location(s) on the Q unlike many of their peers. Also there were over 100 Class
I RR's into the 50's before the ICC changed the definitions of Class I, II &
III RR's. Note a few of these were allowed to funnel into 2 or even 3 points
for return to home road: ie. CN & CP to Groups 1, 2 & 3; Sp to 3, 4 & 5; Barre
& Chelsea to 1 & 2; FtW&D & Wichita Valley to 4 & 5; N&W, Virginian and Norfolk
& Southern (NOT today's N&S but a small coal hauler) to #1 & 6 and SP&S to 2 or
3. Every RR wanted to get the longest part of a revenue haul but conversely
wanted to return a foreign car
the most direct route.
I'll just show initials (reporting marks) except for the lesser known RR's.
Note too some were merged into other RR's beginning in the late 50's/60's and
some even in the 40's were closely aligned with Southern, NYC, SP, etc. but
still had their own equipment & reporting marks.
AC&Y, Algoma Central; Alabama Great Southern; Ann Arbor; Atlanta & West Point;
Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast; ACL; Bangor & Aroostook, Barre & Chelsea (marble
to monument works), B&LE, Birmingham Southern, Boston & Albany (NYC), B&M,
Buffalo & Susquehanna; Buffalo, Rochester & Pacific; Butte, Anaconda & Pacific;
CN, CP; Carolina, Clinchfield & Ohio (Clinchfield), Central of GA, Central RR
of NJ; CV; Charlotte & Western Carolina, Cincinnati, New Orleans & Texas
Pacific; Columbus & Greenville; Copper Range; Cumberland Valley, C&IM; D&H;
DL&W; Detroit & Mackinac; DT&I; DM&IR; DSS&A; DW&P; Durham & Southern; FEC; Ft.
Smith & Western; FTW&D; Galveston, Harrison 7 San Antonio; GA & FL; GA, FL &
AL; Georgia; Georgia, Southern & Florida; Gilmore & Pittsburg (located in MT &
ID!); Gulf & Ship Island; Gulf Coast Lines; Gulf, Colorado & Santa Fe; GM&O;
Houston texas Central; Houston & Eastern & Western texas; Huntington & Broad
Top Mt; International great Northern;
Interstate; K.C., Mexico & Orient; Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf; Lehigh & Hudson
River; LV; Lehigh & New England; Long Island; Los Angeles & Salt Lake;
Louisiana & Arkansas; Louisiana Ry. & Navigation Company; Louisiana Western;
Lousiville, Henderson & St. Louis.
MEC, Manistique & Northeastern; Maryland & Pennsylvania; Midland Terminal;
Midland valley; Minnesota & International; Mississippi River & Bonne Terre;
Missouri & North Arkansas; Montana, Wyoming & Southern; Montour; Muncie &
Western (Ball Jar company-owned); New Orleans & North Eatern; New Orleans,
Texas & Mexico; NY,NH&H; NYO&W; NYS&W; Norfolk & Southern; Northhampton & Bath
(I have a slide of one of their cement hoppers on the Q in Dubuque);
Northwestern Pacific; N&W; NYC System (including Cinncinnati Northern, Big Four
& Peoria & Eastern); Oregon Short Line; Oregon, Washington RR & Navigation Co;
Pacific Electric; P&LE; Philadelphia & Reading; Pittsbirg & Shawmut;
Pittsburgh, Shawmut & Northern; Pittsburgh, Shawmut & Youghiheny; PH&D; Quebec,
Monreal & Southern; RF&P; Rutland; Salt Lake & Utah; San Antonio & Arkansas
Pass; Sand Diego & Arizona Eastern; Savannah & Atlanta; SAL; SP&S; St. Louis,
Brownsville & Mexico (a town in Missouri, NOT the
country); SP; Texas & New Orleans; T&P; TH&D; Tremont & Gulf; Union RR; utah
Cola Route; Utah RY; Virginian; WM; WP; W&LE (part of a E-W routing for the Q);
Wichita Falls Southern; Wichita North Western; Winston-Salem Southbound;
Wichita valley; Wisconsin & Michigan, Yazoo & Mississippi Valley (IC affiliate).
The following RR's, large & small, did interchange with the Q:
Alton; Alton & Southen; AT&SF (16 points at one time, pre-BNSF); B&O; B&O
Chicago Terminal; Belt Ry of Chicago; Bevier & Southern; C&EI; C&IM; Chicago &
Illinois Western; C&NW; Chi, Aurora & Eastern; Chi & Western Indiana; Chicago &
Calument River; C&O; CGW (20 Jct points); CI&L (Monon); Chi Jct Ry; CMStP&P;
Chi Produce Terminal; Chi River & Indiana; CRI&P; Chi Short Line; CStP&O;
CSS&SB; Chi, Terre Haute & SE; Chi, W. Pullman & Southern; C&S; Colorado &
Wyomihng; Davenport, Rock Island & NW (13 Jcts!); Denver & Intermountain;
D&RGW;Denver & Salt Lake; Des Moines & Central Iowa; Des Moines Union; EJ&E;
Erie; E. St. Louis Jct Ry (stock yard); Ft Dodge, Des Moines & Southern;
Galesburg & Great Eastern; GM&O; GTW; GN (8 Jcts in 3 states); Great Western;
GB&W; Hannibal Connecting; Hooppole, Yorktown & Tampico; IC; IL Northern; IL
Terminal; IHB; KC Terminal; KC, Kaw Valley & Western; KCS; K.C. Connecting;
LaSalle & Bureau County; Litchfield & Madison; L&N;
Lee Co. Central Electric; Mfg's Jct (Chi); Mfg's RR (St. Louis); Michigan
Central; M&StL 911 Jcts); Mpls Eastern; MStP&SStM (Soo); Minnesota Western;
Missouri & Illinois; MO & IL Bridge & Belt; MKT, MoPac; Mpls, Northfield &
Southern; NC&StL; NYC&StL (Nickle Plate); NP (13 jcts in 2 states); NYC.
Omaha, Lincoln & Beatrice; Peoria & Pekin Union; Paducah & Illinois; Peoria
Terminal; Pere Marquette (merged later with C&O; this "50's &/or the earlier
"40's GM&N/M&O merger are considered the beginnings of the 'modern' merger
era); PRR; Pullman RR; Ry Transfer Co. of Mpls; Rock Island Southern; Rockport,
Langdon & Northern; Black Hills & Western; St. Joseph Belt; St. Joseph
Terminal; St. Louis & Hannibal; St. Louis & Troy; St. Louis & Fallon; SL-SF;
St. L.-Belleville Electric; SLSW (Cotton Belt); Sioux City Terminal; So. Omaha
Terminal; Southern Iowa Industrial; Southern; St. Paul Union Depot* (SPUD!);
TRRA of St. Louis; TP&W; UP (25 Jcts after "42); Union Term. Co. of St. Joe;
Wabash; Wyoming Ry.
*SPUD is listed, CUS is not. I was told by a ret'd Q Frt Agt that SPUD actually
served an industry or two adjacent to the Union Station, CUS did not so no
freight to interchange.
I recall back in the 1960's Walthers made decals for many of the lesser know
RR's listed above: Hannibal Connecting, Illinois Northern, Interstate, etc.
Although short lines' equipment was rare when watching a passing train or
driving past a yard, you could & would find some of the above even the small,
non-interchanging roads.
Now which cities hosted the most RR's interchanging with CB&Q? Obviously
Chicago was #1 (36 in the 1940's) but #2 thru 10? East St. Louis -23; St.
Louis, MO - 22; Congress Park - 15 (although all via IHB); K.C. - 14; Peoria -
13; St. Paul & Minneapolis - 10 each (with Mpls Jct & Minn Trans fer thrown in,
12 distinct RR's for Mpls); Omaha & Des Moines - 9 each. I suspect Des Moines
is the one member of the Top 10 most Q fans would not have guessed.
But how about small towns yet with 2 or more RR's interchanging with the Q?
Amboy, IL; Centerville, IA; Fairbury, NE; Fulton, IL; Girard, IL; Guernsey, WY;
Metropolis, IL; Monmouth, IL; Utah Jct, CO; Virden; IL; W. Alton, MO; Yegen, MT
all with 2 AND Ladd, IL - 3 plus Streator; IL & Winona, MN with 4 each joining
the Q!
Overall, the # of Jcts where cars were interchanged was nearly 200 in the
mid-40's with that # declining steadily thereafter. Some oddities: UP & Q did
not interchange in Edgar, Fairfield or Stromsberg NE; neither York NE or Illco,
WY interchanged with C&NW nor Carrollton, MO with AT&SF or Griswold, IA with
CRI&P despite physical connections at the time & no other points on the same
'line' or either RR. These were all deleted in late "41 or "42. Also one unique
note among all Jcts: Mexico, MO alone had this note: "No regular interchange
point" (Wabash). I know A.P. Green was a major shipper there (asbestos & heat
resistant block) so perhaps this was to protect business?
If anyone has a question re: any of this material, just holler. (hopefully I
will not respond with "tramp" = 'cannot fill car order due to shortage' aka I
ran out of answers! :-)
And again, Merry Christmas!
Gerald
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CBQ/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CBQ/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
CBQ-digest@yahoogroups.com
CBQ-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
CBQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|