BRHSLIST
[Top] [All Lists]

RE: [CBQ] Interchanges, Codewords & MErry Christmas!

To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [CBQ] Interchanges, Codewords & MErry Christmas!
From: "John D. Mitchell, Jr." <cbqrr47@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 20:14:48 -0800 (PST)
Delivered-to: archives@nauer.org
Delivered-to: mailing list CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1293250497; bh=YZbrAMByLiEltuAx4zNeHwO3knVdqgeCYc7j4gJ8wYs=; h=Received:Received:X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:X-Received:X-Mailer:To:In-Reply-To:X-Originating-IP:From:X-Yahoo-Profile:Sender:MIME-Version:Mailing-List:Delivered-To:List-Id:Precedence:List-Unsubscribe:Date:Subject:Reply-To:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=dBBDQ/LBAWZJViITQ5l4KnAG89/Gti5ZK7vXNoBrWcXcLoVQPxsQMmHpqEi1LAAcaPmi2/RPs1uE3wt57ICnurQGotCI8S22t2b4PYLUiWqrdN98bagkzzBapsL34ZzC
Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=cNtbgyAy1d7dsteqyOvyRjbxQAFIXfh2emgl3bQlrp3ZzwW1wX+sy0f8MN97QAPtYSfJoVhDk+hPI33OGekHJ1XcJ4oDxNEggmUBn5uX5G1L0fa3PeIQEq/5rfRn88NS;
In-reply-to: <BLU162-w418D42C19148BB53F1414CB81E0@phx.gbl>
List-id: <CBQ.yahoogroups.com>
List-unsubscribe: <mailto:CBQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Mailing-list: list CBQ@yahoogroups.com; contact CBQ-owner@yahoogroups.com
Reply-to: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sender: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
It just occured to me, also at Zeigler, the Q ran over the MP to serve the 
Royalton mine but again no interchange.

--- On Fri, 12/24/10, Gerald Edgar <vje68@hotmail.com> wrote:


From: Gerald Edgar <vje68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [CBQ] Interchanges, Codewords & MErry Christmas!
To: cbq@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 10:09 PM



Another good example of RR's having a physical jct, maybe even running over 
each other but NOT interchanging; tks John.

I also caught a typo in my original post: RR's NOT interchanging with CB&Q but 
wjose cars showed up on the Burlington: Utah Coal Route (not 'Cola' although I 
was drinking Coca-Cola while typing!)


Gerald  





To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: cbqrr47@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 20:05:40 -0800
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Interchanges, Codewords & MErry Christmas!


  



Gerald
Herrin, IL was another interesting place. The Q had track connections both with 
the IC and MP but it was not a regular inchange point. Indeed it operated over 
the MP to serve the Seymour mine and the IC to reach the Bobby Dick mine.The MP 
performed car haul service from the Utility mine and Zeigler #4 mine to Herrin 
for the Q. The Q preformed car haul service from the Morgan mine to Herrin for 
both the IC and MP. Likewise at Zeigler the Q, IC and MP all operated over C,Z 
& G but did not inchange here.

--- On Fri, 12/24/10, Gerald Edgar <vje68@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Gerald Edgar <vje68@hotmail.com>
Subject: [CBQ] Interchanges, Codewords & MErry Christmas!
To: cbq@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 9:31 PM

  

>From a May 1, 1940 CB&Q Distribution Chart, updated (ink notations by L.V. 
>Petsch) into early "50's for the use of "Supt Transportation, Car Accountant, 
>Car Distributors & Agents"
NOTE: all data was for CB&Q proper; C&S and FtW&D had their own 'chart' & rules.

Cipher Code: 13 terms for Auto & Furniture Cars (either 50' or 36/40' with 10' 
or higher doors or Evans Loading devices); 23 terms for Box cars; 17 terms 
forCoal Cars (hoppers, open & closed AND gondolas); 6 terms for Flat Cars; 4 
terms for Refrigerator Cars; 12 terms for Stock Cars and 2 terms for Tank Cars. 

The terms are all 'words' of 4 to 6 letters with A words for Auto/Furniture 
cars, B for Box, C for Coal, F for Flat, R for Refrigerator, S for Stock & T 
for Tanks. Examples:

Abate = System 50' Furniture car less than 10' high, Acid for a Foreign car of 
same dimensions. Aloud = 50' System Auto Car 10' or higher; Alum for Foreign 
car of same dimensions. 

Basil & Bath were for System & Foreign flour box cars; Bead & Belay for System 
& Foreign Grain box cars and Bilk for either System or Foreign Grain box cars 
grouped together; Bite & Bliss for System & Foreign sugar box cars with Bog for 
System or Foreign; similarly Boat, Bosh, Bow for cement box cars (bagged in 
those days!) and Bridge for Rough freight (hides, etc).

Cape was System coal cars (drop-end series 76500-76999); Case for System coal 
cars (16 door 81000-83000); Cash for System coal cars (Wooden series 
85000-88699); Chafe & Chew for H&B Work Cars 215000-215499, 80,000# capy & 
217000-217749, 100,000# capy respectively. Clip was Hart Selective Ballast 
Cars, 220000-220599.
Cast was System gondola (presumably 40') as Cave was system mill gondolas with 
Cede for System 65' gons. 

Fend, Fife & Flip were 40, 45 & 50' System flats . Race was System 
refrigerators except Rank for Ice reefers in series 39000.

Stock cars ranged from 36' & 40' to single (36' System = Scoop; 40 System = 
Scar) & double deck (Score, Settle Scarp = System, foreign or combination of 
ownership)

Tank Cars were simply either Tackle for System or Tamper for Foreign.

40 Misc cypher words ranged from an obvious "Cleanfeet" (disinfect livestock) 
to Native = Until further notice and Twist = May we use system equipment? Words 
began with B, C, F, I, P, R, S, T, V, W & Y (Yawl - referring to your mailgram 
& Yelp - referring to our mailgram) Other interesting terms were Warp - will 
you accept? and Web - will accept. One that jumps out is 'Slam' (if a car 
accountant could not find a record of a car, he put 'Slam' on his '46' Car 
Report with the Car Distributor to immediately verify car # & initials; if 
'Slam' appeared twice for a particular car, the problem was to be handled by 
special wire i.e. don't "lose" a car!) Another good term was 'Riot' (Routed via 
your station) and Totter (Do not use System equipment, will protect with 
suitable foreign car from 'x' RR) and 'Veto' - "Rush shipment, see no delay!"

Now for Junction Points (where cars without a direct connection to CB&Q were to 
be routed depending which of 6 regions they were bound for. So for example 
Maine Central (Group 1), cars would be routed from various points on the 
Burlington to the 10 Jct points in Group #1 with a Western Pacific car (Group 
4) being routed to any of that group's Junctions. This info will help those of 
you wishing to be protypical in blocking your cars. IE even if you model an 
area in Group 3, foreign cars being returned to southern points would be 
grouped with Group 5 & 6 cars. 

Group 1 (Eastern Loading): Beardstown, Chicago, Congress Park (via IHB), Eola 
(via EJ&E), Litchfield, Peoria, Streator, Smithboro, Sorento, St. Louis 
Terminals & Zearing (All in Illinois)
Group 2 (Northern Loading): Galena, Monmouth, Peoria, Sterling & Tri-Cities 
(Davenport, Moline & Rock Island); Clinton, Council Bluffs, Des Moines, Dubuque 
& Sioux City, IA; Twin Cities; Billings & Laurel , Montana and Omaha, NE.

Group 3 (Northwestern Loading): Council Bluffs & Sioux City, IA; Denver; 
Billings & Laurel and Twin Cities

Group 4 (Western Loading): Denver and any Missouri River junctions

Group 5 (South & Southwestern Loading): St. Louis terminals; K.C. and St. Joe, 
MO; Denver; Atchison, Concordia & leavenworth, KS

Group 6 (South & Southeastern Loading): Centralia, Smithboro, Sorento & St. 
Louis terminals; Kansas City, MO and Paducah, KY.

Now which RR's did the Q cite as "indirect connection cars that frequently show 
up on our lines" Note: good info for accurate modeling consists! Note too, even 
in 'the day' there were many small short lines yet not all such lines are 
listed in this booklet (there were 600+ RR's in the USA in the 1950's). Thus 
the small lines listed had interchange equipment and were active with some 
location(s) on the Q unlike many of their peers. Also there were over 100 Class 
I RR's into the 50's before the ICC changed the definitions of Class I, II & 
III RR's. Note a few of these were allowed to funnel into 2 or even 3 points 
for return to home road: ie. CN & CP to Groups 1, 2 & 3; Sp to 3, 4 & 5; Barre 
& Chelsea to 1 & 2; FtW&D & Wichita Valley to 4 & 5; N&W, Virginian and Norfolk 
& Southern (NOT today's N&S but a small coal hauler) to #1 & 6 and SP&S to 2 or 
3. Every RR wanted to get the longest part of a revenue haul but conversely 
wanted to return a foreign car
the most direct route.

I'll just show initials (reporting marks) except for the lesser known RR's. 
Note too some were merged into other RR's beginning in the late 50's/60's and 
some even in the 40's were closely aligned with Southern, NYC, SP, etc. but 
still had their own equipment & reporting marks.

AC&Y, Algoma Central; Alabama Great Southern; Ann Arbor; Atlanta & West Point; 
Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast; ACL; Bangor & Aroostook, Barre & Chelsea (marble 
to monument works), B&LE, Birmingham Southern, Boston & Albany (NYC), B&M, 
Buffalo & Susquehanna; Buffalo, Rochester & Pacific; Butte, Anaconda & Pacific; 
CN, CP; Carolina, Clinchfield & Ohio (Clinchfield), Central of GA, Central RR 
of NJ; CV; Charlotte & Western Carolina, Cincinnati, New Orleans & Texas 
Pacific; Columbus & Greenville; Copper Range; Cumberland Valley, C&IM; D&H; 
DL&W; Detroit & Mackinac; DT&I; DM&IR; DSS&A; DW&P; Durham & Southern; FEC; Ft. 
Smith & Western; FTW&D; Galveston, Harrison 7 San Antonio; GA & FL; GA, FL & 
AL; Georgia; Georgia, Southern & Florida; Gilmore & Pittsburg (located in MT & 
ID!); Gulf & Ship Island; Gulf Coast Lines; Gulf, Colorado & Santa Fe; GM&O; 
Houston texas Central; Houston & Eastern & Western texas; Huntington & Broad 
Top Mt; International great Northern;
Interstate; K.C., Mexico & Orient; Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf; Lehigh & Hudson 
River; LV; Lehigh & New England; Long Island; Los Angeles & Salt Lake; 
Louisiana & Arkansas; Louisiana Ry. & Navigation Company; Louisiana Western; 
Lousiville, Henderson & St. Louis.

MEC, Manistique & Northeastern; Maryland & Pennsylvania; Midland Terminal; 
Midland valley; Minnesota & International; Mississippi River & Bonne Terre; 
Missouri & North Arkansas; Montana, Wyoming & Southern; Montour; Muncie & 
Western (Ball Jar company-owned); New Orleans & North Eatern; New Orleans, 
Texas & Mexico; NY,NH&H; NYO&W; NYS&W; Norfolk & Southern; Northhampton & Bath 
(I have a slide of one of their cement hoppers on the Q in Dubuque); 
Northwestern Pacific; N&W; NYC System (including Cinncinnati Northern, Big Four 
& Peoria & Eastern); Oregon Short Line; Oregon, Washington RR & Navigation Co; 
Pacific Electric; P&LE; Philadelphia & Reading; Pittsbirg & Shawmut; 
Pittsburgh, Shawmut & Northern; Pittsburgh, Shawmut & Youghiheny; PH&D; Quebec, 
Monreal & Southern; RF&P; Rutland; Salt Lake & Utah; San Antonio & Arkansas 
Pass; Sand Diego & Arizona Eastern; Savannah & Atlanta; SAL; SP&S; St. Louis, 
Brownsville & Mexico (a town in Missouri, NOT the
country); SP; Texas & New Orleans; T&P; TH&D; Tremont & Gulf; Union RR; utah 
Cola Route; Utah RY; Virginian; WM; WP; W&LE (part of a E-W routing for the Q); 
Wichita Falls Southern; Wichita North Western; Winston-Salem Southbound; 
Wichita valley; Wisconsin & Michigan, Yazoo & Mississippi Valley (IC affiliate).

The following RR's, large & small, did interchange with the Q:
Alton; Alton & Southen; AT&SF (16 points at one time, pre-BNSF); B&O; B&O 
Chicago Terminal; Belt Ry of Chicago; Bevier & Southern; C&EI; C&IM; Chicago & 
Illinois Western; C&NW; Chi, Aurora & Eastern; Chi & Western Indiana; Chicago & 
Calument River; C&O; CGW (20 Jct points); CI&L (Monon); Chi Jct Ry; CMStP&P; 
Chi Produce Terminal; Chi River & Indiana; CRI&P; Chi Short Line; CStP&O; 
CSS&SB; Chi, Terre Haute & SE; Chi, W. Pullman & Southern; C&S; Colorado & 
Wyomihng; Davenport, Rock Island & NW (13 Jcts!); Denver & Intermountain; 
D&RGW;Denver & Salt Lake; Des Moines & Central Iowa; Des Moines Union; EJ&E; 
Erie; E. St. Louis Jct Ry (stock yard); Ft Dodge, Des Moines & Southern; 
Galesburg & Great Eastern; GM&O; GTW; GN (8 Jcts in 3 states); Great Western; 
GB&W; Hannibal Connecting; Hooppole, Yorktown & Tampico; IC; IL Northern; IL 
Terminal; IHB; KC Terminal; KC, Kaw Valley & Western; KCS; K.C. Connecting; 
LaSalle & Bureau County; Litchfield & Madison; L&N;
Lee Co. Central Electric; Mfg's Jct (Chi); Mfg's RR (St. Louis); Michigan 
Central; M&StL 911 Jcts); Mpls Eastern; MStP&SStM (Soo); Minnesota Western; 
Missouri & Illinois; MO & IL Bridge & Belt; MKT, MoPac; Mpls, Northfield & 
Southern; NC&StL; NYC&StL (Nickle Plate); NP (13 jcts in 2 states); NYC.

Omaha, Lincoln & Beatrice; Peoria & Pekin Union; Paducah & Illinois; Peoria 
Terminal; Pere Marquette (merged later with C&O; this "50's &/or the earlier 
"40's GM&N/M&O merger are considered the beginnings of the 'modern' merger 
era); PRR; Pullman RR; Ry Transfer Co. of Mpls; Rock Island Southern; Rockport, 
Langdon & Northern; Black Hills & Western; St. Joseph Belt; St. Joseph 
Terminal; St. Louis & Hannibal; St. Louis & Troy; St. Louis & Fallon; SL-SF; 
St. L.-Belleville Electric; SLSW (Cotton Belt); Sioux City Terminal; So. Omaha 
Terminal; Southern Iowa Industrial; Southern; St. Paul Union Depot* (SPUD!); 
TRRA of St. Louis; TP&W; UP (25 Jcts after "42); Union Term. Co. of St. Joe; 
Wabash; Wyoming Ry.

*SPUD is listed, CUS is not. I was told by a ret'd Q Frt Agt that SPUD actually 
served an industry or two adjacent to the Union Station, CUS did not so no 
freight to interchange.

I recall back in the 1960's Walthers made decals for many of the lesser know 
RR's listed above: Hannibal Connecting, Illinois Northern, Interstate, etc. 
Although short lines' equipment was rare when watching a passing train or 
driving past a yard, you could & would find some of the above even the small, 
non-interchanging roads.

Now which cities hosted the most RR's interchanging with CB&Q? Obviously 
Chicago was #1 (36 in the 1940's) but #2 thru 10? East St. Louis -23; St. 
Louis, MO - 22; Congress Park - 15 (although all via IHB); K.C. - 14; Peoria - 
13; St. Paul & Minneapolis - 10 each (with Mpls Jct & Minn Trans fer thrown in, 
12 distinct RR's for Mpls); Omaha & Des Moines - 9 each. I suspect Des Moines 
is the one member of the Top 10 most Q fans would not have guessed. 

But how about small towns yet with 2 or more RR's interchanging with the Q? 
Amboy, IL; Centerville, IA; Fairbury, NE; Fulton, IL; Girard, IL; Guernsey, WY; 
Metropolis, IL; Monmouth, IL; Utah Jct, CO; Virden; IL; W. Alton, MO; Yegen, MT 
all with 2 AND Ladd, IL - 3 plus Streator; IL & Winona, MN with 4 each joining 
the Q!

Overall, the # of Jcts where cars were interchanged was nearly 200 in the 
mid-40's with that # declining steadily thereafter. Some oddities: UP & Q did 
not interchange in Edgar, Fairfield or Stromsberg NE; neither York NE or Illco, 
WY interchanged with C&NW nor Carrollton, MO with AT&SF or Griswold, IA with 
CRI&P despite physical connections at the time & no other points on the same 
'line' or either RR. These were all deleted in late "41 or "42. Also one unique 
note among all Jcts: Mexico, MO alone had this note: "No regular interchange 
point" (Wabash). I know A.P. Green was a major shipper there (asbestos & heat 
resistant block) so perhaps this was to protect business?

If anyone has a question re: any of this material, just holler. (hopefully I 
will not respond with "tramp" = 'cannot fill car order due to shortage' aka I 
ran out of answers! :-)

And again, Merry Christmas!

Gerald 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CBQ/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CBQ/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    CBQ-digest@yahoogroups.com 
    CBQ-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    CBQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>