HOL WAGNER wrote:
> Norm: Please post this to the Q list in response to the question about
> turning the Twin Zephyrs at Mpls.
>
> Hol
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* JWSchultz
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:48 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Fw: [CBQ] Time to turn the Zephyr in Minneapolis.
>
> Hol--
>
> I'll endeavor to answer the question; here goes. Burlington
> doubled Twin Zephyr service on June 2, 1935, requiring each consist to
> make a daily round-trip. The October-November-December 1935 public
> timetable shows No. 21 arriving Minneapolis at 3:00 p.m. and the same
> consist departing as No. 24 at 4:00 p.m. For comparative purposes, Nos.
> 22-23 observed an identical schedule in Chicago, arriving at 3 o'clock
> and departing at 4. If anything, the Chicago performance was the more
> demanding of the two, and Burlington installed a fuel stanchion and
> water supply at the south end of Chicago's 14th St. coach yard for the
> sole purpose of fueling/watering No. 22-23's motor. .
>
> Previously, there was no comparable operation with steam; literally all
> conventional steam-powered passenger consists (Nos. 45-52, the
> Mississippi Riverview and Nos. 47-48, the Black Hawk), made daily
> one-way trips between Chicago and Minneapolis. The closest comparison
> that can be made with conventional equipment and steam occurred when a
> Zephyr consist was out-of-service and a conventional train was
> substituted. During July 1935, on at least two consecutive days, Nos.
> 21-24 were protected with a four-car consist (unoccupied "buffer"
> combine [in an attempt to put some distance between the passengers and
> the steam locomotive], chair car, diner, and parlor), powered by
> Pacific's. Engines were changed northbound at North La Crosse; I don't
> know if this was done southbound or in either direction at Savanna or at
> Minneapolis. From other information I've gleaned, I believe the intent
> was to have the one consist make the round-trip, but the Q quickly
> developed the practice of assembling "make-up" consists for either Nos.
> 22 or 24 using its chair cars and either GN or NP diners and lounge cars
> [the latter used as parlor cars] or a Pullman.
>
> Another steam example on the eve of the original Twins' replacement with
> Trains of the Gods and Goddesses: from September 17 to 22, 1936, Nos.
> 21-24 ran with conventional equipment; here's 21 on September 17: S-4
> Hudson 3010, buffer combine 3516, chair car 4523, and
> dining-lounge-(solarium) observation 325. My notes indicate that it was
> the intent to operate the 3010 Chicago to Minneapolis without change; a
> different S-4 would return the same three-car consist to Chicago as No.
> 24. During this period, it was stipulated that S-4s would be used for
> power.
>
> Schedules remained unchanged after the Trains of the Gods and Goddesses
> entered service (per the June-September 1937 public timetable). Use of
> S-4-A Hudson (AEolian) No. 4000 as a substitute for the diesel on either
> Nos. 21-24 or Nos. 22-23 saw the steam locomotive make the entire
> 874-mile round-trip.
>
> Effective January 21, 1939, schedules were tightened in response to
> heightened Hiawatha competition. No. 21 left Chicago at 8:45 a.m, and
> arrived Minneapolis at 3:30; 24 retained its 4:00 p.m. Minneapolis
> departure, but arrived Chicago at 10:59. (Nos. 22-23 continued to
> observe the scheduled one-hour dwell/turn-around in Chicago.)
>
> Effective January 28, 1940, schedules were further tightened (primarilly
> the result of shifting the Zephyrs from the La Crosse "city line" to the
> freight bypass or "bluff line"). No. 21 left Chicago at 9:00 a.m.
> and arrived Minneapolis at 3:30; No. 24 left Minneapolis at 4:00 and
> arrived Chicago at 10:45 p.m. No. 22 left Chicago at 8:00 a.m.
> and arrived Chicago at 2:40 p.m.; No. 23 left Chicago at 3:30 p.m. and
> returned to Minneapolis at 10:15 p.m.
>
> The January-February 1943 public timetable eased all Chicago-St. Paul
> Zephyr timings 15 minutes in response to the December 6, 1942 directive
> from the Office of Defense Transportation stipulating that fast trains
> throughout the country be slowed to conserve equipment by the presumable
> reduction of wear and tear. No. 21 left Chicago at 9:00 a.m., arrived
> St. Paul and Minneapolis at 3:15 and 3:45 respectively, but No. 24
> continued to observe Minneapolis departure at 4:00 p.m. From my
> railroad experience, I'm fairly certain the 15-minute dwell and
> turn-around was more theory than fact. (By comparison, 22 left
> Minneapolis at 7:45 a.m, and arrived Chicago at 2:40 p.m.; No. 23 left
> Chicago at 4 o'clock and arrived Minneapolis at 10:30 p.m.;
> subsequently, 22 reverted to an 8 o'clock departure at Minneapolis,
> arriving Chicago at 2:55 p.m.; No. 23 's departure was set back to 4
> o'clock, and the train arrived in Minneapolis at 11:00 p.m.)
>
> Nos. 21-24's scheduled 15-minute Minneapolis dwell/turn-around was
> observed until the October-December 1947 public timetable changed 24's
> Minneapolis departure from 4:00 to 4:15 p.m., giving Minneapolis forces
> a full half-hour to turn and service the train. The Q removed 15
> minutes from 22's schedule and added the time to Nos. 22-23's Chicago
> dwell (2:40 p.m.--4:00 p.m.). I've been unable to determine the date
> that the ODT rescinded its order, but the Milwaukee had begun to tighten
> Hiawatha schedules the previous June.
>
> The May 19, 1952 issue of Railway Age magazine included an article about
> Nos. 21-24's Minneapolis turn-around. It required three days for the
> Railway Age photographer to obtain the necessary photographs due to his
> inability to keep pace with the activity.
>
> The November 1957-April 1958 public timetable lengthened Twin Zephyr
> schedules and both Minneapolis and Chicago turn-arounds of Nos. 21-24
> and 22-23 (due to the replacement of four-aspect semaphore block signals
> with three-aspect searchlight signals between North La Crosse and St.
> Croix tower [Hastings], restricting maximum authorized speed from 90 to
> 79 mph). Departing Chicago at 9 o'clock, 21 arrived St. Paul and
> Minneapolis at 3:25 and 3:45 respectively; No. 24 departed Minneapolis
> at 4:20 p.m, (4:50 p.m. at St. Paul), and arrived Chicago at 11:15 p.m.
> No. 22 left Minneapolis and St. Paul at 7:55 and 8:25 a.m. respectively
> and arrived Chicago at 2;45 p.m.; No. 23 left Chicago at 4:15 p.m. and
> was scheduled back in the Twin Cities at 10:40 and 11:00 p.m.
> respectively. Earlier, Nos. 22-23 Chicago dwell had increased to 95
> minutes.
>
> Over the course of the ensuing six and a half years, the Q made minor
> adjustments to the schedules of Nos. 21-24, which increased Minneapolis
> dwell to 35 and, eventually, 40 minutes. Then on April 26, 1964, the
> Minneapolis turn-around was discontinued. No. 21 operated with
> Minneapolis baggage car, dome-parlor-observation, and coaches, and St.
> Paul dining car, coaches, and buffet car (when operated), arriving
> Minneapolis at 2:50 p.m. No. 24 departed Minneapolis with a separate
> set of equipment (that had arrived on the preceding day's No. 21), and
> picked-up the diner, coaches, and buffet car in St. Paul that had been
> set-out by that day's No. 21. The stated reason for the change was to
> effect better connections in Chicago off No. 24, but it acknowledged
> that both Nos. 21 and 24 had become erratic time-keepers and that any
> delays to No. 21 could no longer be recovered by No. 24.
>
> This regimen was observed until June 9, 1968, at which time Burlington
> resumed turning back No. 21's inbound train from Minneapolis the same
> afternoon as No. 24. No. 21 arrived Minneapolis at 3:15 p.m. and No. 24
> departed at 3:55 p.m. By now, the baggage, parlor, and dining cars had
> been replaced with a baggage-buffet car, and most days the train
> consisted of a single motor, the baggage-buffet, and two to three
> (vista-dome) chair cars. This routine was followed through the end on
> service in April 1970.
>
> On a July 1969 ride on Nos. 7 and 10 (renumbered from Nos. 21 and 24 the
> preceding October), No. 7 suffered about two hours of delay due to a
> minor freight-train derailment at Savanna. That afternoon, the Q turned
> No. 7 back from St. Paul as No. 10, and ran a Minneapolis-St. Paul "Stub
> 10" and "Stub 7" round-trip with an E-unit and two chair cars
> (laying-over between inbound and outbound Black Hawks). Though I didn't
> appreciate it at the time, this tactic had undoubtedly been employed
> throughout the preceding three decades when No. 21 was running late.
> That November, I rode a one-motor, three-car No. 7/No. 10 into and out
> of Minneapolis, and was permitted to remain aboard and ride around the
> wye and into (and out of) the coach yard. I don't remember much about
> the experience, other than the ride around the wye and back-up move into
> the coach yard was crisply executed, and once in the coach yard, the
> conductor (who'd invited me to remain aboard) admonished me to remain
> aboard as "we won't be here very long."
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________________
>
> I should apologize for remaining incognito following my departure from
> Colorado. A number of personal matters converged all at once, and the
> problems of a comparatively small regional railroad seem to demand the
> same amount of time as those of a huge class-one territory.
>
> After several changes in personnel (and taking two years to lay-out two
> chapters of the first Zephyr book), Bob Hundman decided to exit the
> book-publishing business (or at least the multi-volume book-publishing
> business). Hence, I've concluded the best thing to do is hold-off until
> retirement (in 2013), then self-publish the Zephyr manuscript if it
> appears there is still a market sufficient to make it viable. I still
> believe there is, though probably in the 900-to-1200 volume range. I
> suspect the University of Minnesota Press would consider publishing the
> Twin Zephyr history (to compliment its reprinted Scribbins' Hiawatha and
> 400 histories), but probably not the others (and would probably not
> entertain multiple volumes)
>
> Speaking of writing, do you still have a copy of my Naperville wreck
> manuscript, and if so, could you please send me a copy? Thanks.
>
> Good to hear from you.
>
> Bill
>
> >
> Bill:
>
> I'm not a member of the Q group on Yahoo, but a friend sends me
> items he thinks will interest me, including this one. You're the
> obvious one to answer this question, and if you choose to do so, you
> can either send the answer back to me and I'll get Norm Metcalf to
> post it, or you can send it to Ed DeRouin, as he is a member of the
> group.
>
> I've written over a million words now on my history of the first 10 years
> of the C&S -- the
> pre-Q era. This one most definitely will never be published!
>
> Take care,
>
> Hol
>
> *Subject:* Re: [CBQ] Time to turn the Zephyr in Minneapolis.
>
> Dave H wrote:
> > One of the docents at the Jackson Street Roundhouse in St Paul MN
> is working on a Zephyr Anniversary Display. He asks:
> >
> > Will you ask your Burlington Yahoo group about the turn time for
> the
> > Zephyr in Minneapolis. I am particularly interested in steam vs.
> the
> > original Zephyr train set in the 40's era. In the Burlington
> > Historical magazine, Ralph Budd mentions that one train set
> replaces
> > two steam engines and six cars on the run to KC, I am sure this
> has to
> > do with the turn time of the Steam locomotives but it would be
> nice to
> > have more information. I am using this in the Zephyr Anniversary
> > exhibit at the MTM's Jackson Street Roundhouse. It looks to me
> from
> > the photo record taken by the Star and Tribune that the train set
> was
> > turned on the wye after being unloaded then backed into the
> Burlington
> > coach yards west of the Minneapolis depot for cleaning and fueling
> > before being pulled back into the depot for the return trip.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Dave H
> >
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CBQ/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CBQ/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:CBQ-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:CBQ-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
CBQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|