Bob,
I continue to hear similar stories from the various "D.S.P.&P" founding
members. I hang out with some of the crew from the Buenie & Fairplay area -
Cliff Mestel, Bob Schoppe & others. The stories they tell makes me kind of glad
I got into the organization after the first year. Thanks for helping start a
great organization!
Thank you for the numbering information. It sounds like another trip is not
necessary. I don't suppose the current occupant would appreciate me showing up
with a tool box & a pry bar. I would like to see the interior once he has moved
out but that may be down the road aways.
Hope to see you at one of the conventions,
Brian------- Original message --------------
From: Bob Webber <rgz17@comcast.net>
Brian, I was one of the founding members and for a short time the
editor of the first newsletter. I was one of those blackballed by
the C&SHS (big surprise, huh?) for having the temerity to ask about
the publication cycle of the Beartrap (online) - that triggered the
founding of the DSP&PHS.
The best place to find the Lot number is around the window
sashes. However, from off-line information, it was confirmed this
was the later Lot (3367 plan 2145-A No. 542 - 548). The other areas
are harder to get to easily without removing parts.
At 09:38 AM 8/1/2007, angusmcadams@comcast.net wrote:
>Bob,
>Nice to hear you were a member of the South Park H.S. Hope you
>decide to rejoin. We can use all the help we can muster.
>
>I am going to try to get back up to Lyons next week if time permits.
>The present occupant of the car was not real thrilled to open it up
>the last time since it was his office & residence so might have a
>little trouble getting access to the inside. Hope not!
>
>You mentioned that the lot no. would be stamped on various parts ot
>the car. Where would be the best place to start looking? Most of
>the windows are filled with removable pieces of artwork. Not sure he
>would want me pulling things out but if I know which parts of the
>window to look at would make things a little easier.
>
>Thanks for any help you can send my way,
>Brian
>
>------ Original message --------------
>From: Bob Webber <rgz17@comcast.net>
>
>Bryan, if you do go to see him, you can advise him that the original
>drawings are available - which might help the sale. A nicely framed
>side elevation would be a nice addition.
>
>I also was in the DSP&PHS - haven't renewed for a while for some
>reason, must do that soon.
>
>At 05:06 PM 7/31/2007, angusmcadams@comcast.net wrote:
> >Hello Bob,
> >
> >Thank you for the wealth of information you have provided. Way more
> >than I ever expected! I have learned more about the Pullman
> >numbering system in the past few days than I knew in the previous 40 years.
> >
> >It looks like another road trip to Lyons is in order when I can make
> >time. Maybe with the info. you & others have provided I can find
> >some numbers that will now make a little more sense.
> >
> >Let's hope the car ends up in good hands.
> >
> >Thank you again for your time & effort,
> >Brian Adams
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >From: Bob Webber <rgz17@comcast.net>
> >The car could also have been from the earlier Lot 3311 Plan 2147-B
> >(cars 538 to 541 on the C&S and 1-4 on the T&BV).
> >
> >The period is interesting to chase cars as the C&S, T&BV and FtW&DC
> >all had cars that were built by Pullman and ordered by the C&S but
> >assigned to any of the 3 railroads, in addition to cars for the
> >railroads themselves.
> >
> >On any Pullman built car, the Lot is easy to ascertain, as the number
> >is stamped into many of the parts on the car, including the window
> >sashes, door frames, vestibule frames, etc. The number is between
> >1/2" and 3/4" high and width proportionate. With many of the original
> >frames intact on the Lyons car, it should be relatively easy to
> >determine exactly which Lot it came from. Note that the cars the
> >seller suggests (538, 539, 540, 542 or 547) come from 2 different
> >Lots, and two different Plans.
> >
> >This brings up the issue of railroad diagrams or folios. Often
> >times, cars that are similar are lumped into the same class and the
> >same folio is used to portray them. And sometimes, that may not be
> >accurate. In some cases, the folios lump multiple Lots of cars with
> >the same Plans making it more difficult to find the correct Lot
> >number for a given car (see the link on the railmerchants website
> >below to the C&S mail-passenger combination car - these cars -
> >328-331 were actually built in two lots, one in 1906, one in
> >1907). It just makes things a bit frustrating when trying to
> >research some of these things.
> >
> >The actual side elevations from the original Pullman specs are
> >available for these cars, along with all of the other drawings and
> >the specifications themselves. The specifications spell out the
> >paint used, lettering and number/names used and the interior
> >decorations. In some cases, the side elevation for the car does have
> >some lettering information. I have not looked up either of these
> >two Lots, and I don't know how the letterboard for the T&BV would
> >have looked or if they were sublettered. The specs would also indicate that.
> >
> >At 09:46 AM 7/30/2007, Bob Webber wrote:
> > >A C&S car:
> > >http://cgi.ebay.com/Real-1906-Pullman-Passenger-Coach-Colorado-Sout
> > hern_W0QQitemZ200133275317QQcmdZViewItem
> > >
> > >Though someone gave him wrong information. The original Lot is 3367
> > >plan 2145-A No. 542 - 548 (though it might have been renumbered).
> > >
> > >BTW, a mail-passenger car in the same era was recently sold (though
> > >in considerably better condition) :
> > >http://www.railmerchants.net/cs/index.html
> > >
> > >
> > >At 08:46 AM 7/26/2007, Brian Adams wrote:
> > > >Hello Group,
> > > >
> > > >I joined a few day's ago seeking answers to a couple of questions I
> > > >have. I appologize if this get's a little long..
> > > >
> > > >My name is Brian Adams. I am on the Board of the Denver, South Park &
> > > >Pacific Historical Society in Colorado. A couple of weeks ago we were
> > > >contacted about the availability of a "1906 Pullman Passenger car"
> > > >and a 1950's era steel caboose sitting on Main St. in Lyons,
> > > >Colorado. I was picked to take a look since I only live about 35
> > > >miles away. I contacted the owner & made arrangements to meet the
> > > >following day.
> > > >
> > > >I was given access to the interior of the Passenger Car by the
> > > >present occupant who has been running his business out of the cars.
> > > >(he is a Celtic Artist). I know very little about standard gauge
> > > >passenger cars-Pullman built or otherwise so I will pass on what I
> > > >noted & the limited information I received from the present occupant
> > > >& owner.
> > > >
> > > >-The Colorado RR Museum had informed them that the Passenger Car had
> > > > originally been used as a Diner and later a Visitors Center in
> > > > Winter Park, CO. A sister car is also being used as a commercial
> > > > structure in Nederland, CO.
> > > >-Both cars are sitting on the ground on some type of foundation. All
> > > > of the running gear on the passenger car has been removed. The owner
> > > > said that the trucks & running gear had been setting in a
> > > > residential front yard until a few weeks ago. He had attempted to
> > > > sell them with no takers & finally ended up selling them for scrap!
> > > > I could not confirm this.
> > > >-The Passenger car is wood sheathed with closed vestibules. (appears
> > > > to be approx. 60 ft. in length. The occupant said that several
> > > > layers of various colored paint had been removed. The car had been
> > > > Maintenance Orange when it was moved to this location. The
> > > > vestibules have some kind of steel sheating attached with some type
> > > > of round head nails. This sheathing is painted a Pullman Green.
> > > > The letter board has the number 1906 on both ends with Burlington
> > > > in the center. This lettering appears to have been added after
> > > > stripping.
> > > >-All glass has been replaced...lower side windows clear...upper side
> > > > windows someone's idea of stained glass. Looks like the clerestory
> > > > windows may be clear acrylic.
> > > >-The interior is being used as an office/storage/residence. The
> > > > car is attached at a 90 deg. angle to a hole cut in the side of the
> > > > caboose to allow pass thru. I could find no
> > > > original/seating/appliances, etc. The 2 side rooms on both ends of
> > > > the car are still in place...one lavatory is in use with updated
> > > > fixtures. The opposite end looks like it may have had a small
> > > > cookstove at one time, just a guess.
> > > >-The mahogany side wall paneling is in surprisingly good condition. I
> > > > could not tell the condition of the floor since it was covered with
> > > > rug's, bookcases, etc.
> > > >
> > > >The D.S.&P.H.S. was not interested in acquiring the car/cars since
> > > >this car had little to do with the "South Park" other than possibly
> > > >having the same parent company at one time.
> > > >
> > > >The restoration group headed by Jason Midyet in Boulder, CO had shown
> > > >an interest. Unfortunately the owner is looking at this as an
> > > >investment. He had them appraised by an Eastern Railroad Auction
> > > >house. They said $65,000 for the Passenger Car & $9,500 for the
> > > >Caboose. I told the owner I would pass on this information in case
> > > >someone is interested. I told him I would also try to find some
> > > >additional info. on them if I could.
> > > >
> > > >If there is any interest he said I could pass on his Name & Phone No.
> > > >& could be contacted directly.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks for any help you can pass my way. Sorry about the length of
> > > >this....The moderator will probably get bored about halfway thru &
> > > >toss it in the trash bin!!
> > > >
> > > >Brian Adams
> > > >Director
> > > >Denver, South Park & Pacific Historical Society
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >Bob Webber
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >Bob Webber
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>Bob Webber
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Bob Webber
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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