Per the Bulletin, the SILVER RIDGE like all post-war Budds SHOULD
have an 18"+ centre sill. The NZ cars should have the narrower
sill. Again, this is all speculation based on the report quoted in
the Bulletin. In fact, the CZ brochure I have has the oft-shown
test of the dome in the compression test where they went well over
the rating need by any of the AAR standards or
recommendations. Which leads me to think that the AT&SF. SP & Q
accidents certainly had an (er...) impact on the design, as did the
Pullman complaints (which I had always thought unfounded until I
really looked at the carcass of SILVER INN).
I'll stop by (assuming I can - I don't have the card to get on
grounds - and I never really know what Ted has up his sleeve!) and
verify it though, thanks!
At 11:04 AM 4/25/2006, Phil Stepek wrote:
>hey Bob stop by tomorrow and we can measure the Ridge fyi
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Bob Webber
>To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: 4/25/2006 10:56:38 AM
>Subject: Re: [CBQ] 60 years ago
>
>
>I don't know how the sills of the DZ and TZ were - the sills on the
>individual pre-war cars were just under 9".
>
>The HW cars in the train did not have tightlock couplers - which is
>why I wondered when they were required. They were effectively
>useless in this incident, but had they all been there, they would
>have provided a much stronger buffer force throughout the length of
>the train. I wonder if accidents such as this forced the matter
>that much quicker.
>
>My original thought on this thread was to see if any of the
>communities remembered it after 60 years - and the roles the
>railroads played in the history of their communities. The local
>paper always has something on the trolley museum, and on the
>IRM. Not much on history. I went to lunch a couple of weeks ago
>at Aurora Roundhouse - would be nice to see the Mark Twain there, wouldn't it?
>
>
>At 10:07 AM 4/25/2006, you wrote:
> >Bob
> >
> > How did the sills compare to those on the 1936 DZ and Twin Zephyrs?
> >
> > All the Budd cars, including those of the DZ, had tight lock
> > couplers. They would have been useless if the adjacent car did not
> > have such a coupler. I don't believe the heavyweight cars had them.
> >
> > sjl
> >
> >Bob Webber <no17@comcast.net> wrote:
> > It's interesting to note that center sill on these pre-war cars was
> >less than half what the later cars had - which is exactly where the
> >three cars failed. The most deaths occurred in the NP coach & the
> >diner (last and 3rd to last cars) with the diner being bent (into a U
> >shape) and the coach being invaded 3/4 of the way by the E5 of the Expo.
> >
> >I would have to think that a far more substantial center sill was
> >installed in GLEAM & CLOUD during their repair. (As an aside, there
> >were extremely few shops at the time who could do that repair,
> >outside of Red Lion - the Q should have been justifiably proud at
> >being one of them). I don't know either if the others got their
> >sills beefed up. It would be easy to check - look at the Nebraska or
> >Mark Twain Zephyr for a start.
> >
> >There weren't that many - according to the report, about 105 cars -
> >to check and reenforce. One thing that might have made this more or
> >less moot - tightlock couplers. Not sure when they were required,
> >but had they been on ALL cars in this wreck, the damage would have
> >been far less. And, they would have acted as a certain amount of
> >reenforcement of the sill.
> >
> >
> >At 08:29 AM 4/25/2006, you wrote:
> > >Bob or anyone
> > >
> > > What measures did Budd take to strengthen their pre-war cars both
> > > before and after the 1946 Naperville wreck?
> > > I do know that in a head-on collision involving Santa Fe' chief
> > > in 1955, a prewar Budd dormitory-baggage car was totally demolished
> > > to where its existence in the consist was briefly questioned.
> > >
> > > sjl
> > >
> > >Bob Webber <no17@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > No, I'm not concerned with the past news as such - Hol's Bulletins
> > >and other news sites on the web have a lot of information on the web
> > >including the photos from the Cushman site. What I was more
> > >interested in though, was if there were any references to it in
> > >current newspapers.
> > >For those unfamiliar with it:
> > >http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P03241.jpg
> > >http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P03242.jpg
> > >http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P03243.jpg
> > >http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P03244.jpg
> > >http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P03245.jpg
> > >http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P03246.jpg
> > >http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P03247.jpg
> > >http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P03248.jpg
> > >http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P03249.jpg
> > >
> > >and
> > >news here:
> > >http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/train/a20trainloc.htm
> > >
> > >In terms of the results, the primary one really was somewhat lost -
> > >and that was a vindication of the Pullman issue with the pre-war Budd
> > >design being dangerous to their employee (as being a reason they
> > >didn't want to staff pre-war Budd sleepers). The results of the
> > >crash on Silver Inn and the what Budd had already taken to doing on
> > >the roof and on the sides is indicative of a strength problem.
> > >
> > >One other result was the creation of The Round-Up from the
> > >Mississippi - the second to last car on the train hit, it was reborn
> > >and is still around. The 3rd-6th to last cars were all Budd pre-war
> > >cars, all three suffering tremendous damage - two - SILVER GLEAM and
> > >CLOUD being rebuilt, one SILVER INN being a complete write off ,
> > >being bent into a U-shape.
> > >
> > >
> > >At 09:12 AM 4/24/2006, you wrote:
> > > >What would you like to know? I have everything
> > > >including ICC reports on the accident. Providing I can
> > > >locate them haha. Tim
> > > >
> > > >--- Bob Webber <no17@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Tomorrow will be the 60 year anniversary of the
> > > > > Exposition / Advanced
> > > > > Expo wreck at Naperville.
> > > > >
> > > > > If there is anything in local papers, can someone
> > > > > let me know so I
> > > > > can find something on it? Thanks!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Webber
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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