BRHSlisters:
In response to a question on the Passenger Car List, I developed the
following replies. I hope you don't mind the length.......
Ed DeRouin
>> Ed DeRouin,
>>
>> Bob gives a taste of something I would like to expand on a bit. Just what
>> would the "Q" have used for mail storage, would it have been perhaps a one
>> the 50' box cars in express service or was it more likely a sealed baggage
>> car? I think some of the folks here might be interested to hear what the "Q"
>> used, we always here about the PRR but seldom of what another road might have
>> contributed to cross continental mail service.
>>
>> Greg Martin
>
> Sure Greg:
>
>
> You know I can expound......
>
> The following information relates to post WWII railroading and is not intended
> to insult anyone's intelligence...
>
> First, we need to understand that the railroads sold footage to USPS and REA.
> That is one reason RPO cars had standardized lengths of 15, 30 and 60 feet.
> Similarly contracts existed with USPS for storage mail and REA for express. I
> know of zero cases where a foreign RPO was used as a RPO on a CB&Q train. So,
> only CB&Q RPO's were assigned. If fact some trains carried more than one RPO.
> I have seen pictures of three 'working' RPO's, not a car used as storage or a
> deadhead move.
>
> Like others the Q had mail contracts on many routes. Some required picking up,
> sorting and delivery. Others required the handling only of storage mail. Mixed
> trains often carried a mail sack or two.
>
> Storage mail is just that. It is not worked enroute. Some originated on line.
> Other storage mail originated off line. Storage mail coming from the east to
> Chicago arrived most frequently via the PRR, NYC and B&O. This was referred to
> in Chicago terms as bypass mail, 'cuz it bypassed the local Post Office. Some
> storage mail originating in Chicago when beyond the western limits of the Q,
> Daily, cars were delivered to the UP at Council Bluffs at a station named UP
> Transfer - go figure! Those cars would to destined for Salt Lake City or
> Oakland.
>
> Recall that the USPS awarded contracts over certain carriers for specific
> routes. Mail arriving at Chicago from the east bound for St Paul or the
> PAcific northwest would be delivered to the Milw at Chicago. The Milw had the
> Chicago - St. Paul contact. So, the Q trains headed to the Twin Cities did not
> carry storage mail. One RPO route on the Q on that line existed for
> intermediate locales. If I recall, in the early sixties the CB&Q Stainless
> steel RPO went north on the North Coast Limited and south on the Afternoon
> Zephyr. At St Paul, the Milw handed westbound mail to the GN. So, the Q did
> not forward Portland storage mail to the UP. That mail traveled via Milw and
> GN.
>
> Oh, yeah, you asked about the cars.......
>
> After WWII, the Q had a fleet of steel framed wooden bags, standard hwt. bags
> in 60 and 70 foot lengths, and a few SS pre war Budd cars. New cars were
> ordered from Budd. Due to great demand during the war a series of 50 foot
> single door box cars were fitted with steam lines, psgr. brakes and painted
> green. After the war, the Q bought 300 troop kitchen cars. In 1950, Havelock,
> NE shop built a series of lightweight non-stainless cars to replace the wood
> junk. Much of the wood sheathed cars wound up in MOW service, some survived
> into BN, but I digress....
>
> Cars from the eastern deliveries were typically what you would expect, PRR
> B60's and X29's, NYC 60 bags and former troop cars, B&O std. bags and c-15's.
> The western cars would be and could be anything SP or UP wanted from
> Harriman's to light weights. Even former horse cars.
>
> As any of us know, many exceptions occurred for many reasons. One documented
> exception was ACL 666 used to ship government express from Savannah Army Depot
> or Oak Ridge, TN to a weapons plant outside of Burlington, IA and Rocky Flats
> outside of Denver in the early sixties. The car was routed ACL, L&N, C&EI, Q
> and DRGW as needed. At other times cars from different owners would appear,
> but were very much the exception rather than the rule.
>
> That paints a picture of the fleet, now how were they used?
>
> The cars were assigned based upon the contract. Was a jeep, that's Q term for
> the former troop kitchen cars, adequate? A 60 foot car? As traffic demands
> oscillated, so did car assignments. But daily operations were mostly as
> routine as today's railroading. Every night at 9 the Fast mail departed with a
> very similar consist. The exception were the bypass mail cars and printing
> schedules. Time, Newsweek, The Saturday Evening Post, Ladies Home Journal, and
> TV Week all traveled by rail. The cars would be loaded at local team tracks or
> in the express terminals and moved to the depot.
>
> Bypass connections were honored. Not infrequently, Train 3, the combined
> Ak-Zar-Ben and American Royal Zephyrs would be routed from Chicago Union
> Station into the 14th Street Coach Yard where a switch engine and carmen
> awaited. The engines were cut and moved in to the clear, the tardy bypass cars
> added, and air steam and signal lines reconnected. The delay would be
> minutes...
>
> After the consolidations of the late fifties until the virtual end of the mail
> contracts, the Q ran four daily trains with mail cars to UP Transfer: the
> Nebraska Zephyr (cars were formerly carried on the Coloradoan), the Fast Mail
> (NO passengers), The Ak-Zar-Ben Zephyr, and unnamed No 7. During normal times,
> the daily mail and express car count was in the range of forty to fifty cars.
> Near Christmas a second section of the NZ was scheduled for a two week period.
> I have seen that train 25 cars, 14 mail, and 4 E units in length.
>
> The Q also had contracts between Chicago, KC and St Joseph. Those cars
> traveled on the American Royal Zephyrs. Not much bypass was carried on those
> trains. Trains west of Lincoln also carried RPO's and storage cars, but not in
> the density of the Chicago - CB trains. UP had the contracts west of Omaha,
> so the Q only served local communities including Denver.
>
> Cars would also be set out enroute. Often these cars were tacked to the rear
> in reverse station order. Then at Quincy, or Burlington, or Ottumwa the car
> would be cut and the markers rehung. Eastbound car would be picked up.
>
> Similarly, the same trains came east. The exception was the Fast Mail. It
> really had no eastbound counterpart. Unnamed 8 did some of it work, and 14 was
> express only. In later years, 14 carried meat reefers and meat trailers from
> several Iowa packing houses in addition to mail and express.
>
> Did I answer your question?
>
> Ed
Second Post:
> As I looked more deeply into the subject of car usage, I pulled records from
> my files. They are orders generated daily by the clerk at the 14th coach Yard,
> Chicago. The sheets identify consists and other related information. I cite
> the following data to share some "neat stuff".
>
> For those interested in Q passenger cars and related subjects, I heartily
> recommend joining the Burlington Route Historical Society, or as a minimum
> purchase copies of the Burlington Bulletin containing articles of your
> interests. A recent issue covered the lightweight bags built at Havelock in
> 1950. Others covered RPO's, Office Cars, and the Second Twin Zephyrs. Some are
> currently unavailable. They can be contacted at PO Box 456, LaGrange, IL
> 60505.
>
> On a related note, Q Connection, St Louis, or www. Qconnection, atfreeweb.com
> has HO and N scale laser cut kits of those Havelock baggage cars.
>
> On a second related note, a good friend and author has informed me that his
> epic tome telling the Story of the Zephyrs will be published in 2001. I have
> aided this man with research and more since 1982 and know the scope of the
> project. It will contain substance! I cannot say more at this time. I have
> enjoyed the privilege of proof reading it, yeah, I know, better than my posts
>:-)
>
> Anyway, on Thursday 10-8-64, the Q was busy with Autumn in the Rockies
> traffic; business generated by the creative people in the Passenger
> Department. To manage the loads on 10-9, plans were created to run the
> California Zephyr, #17, in three sections to Denver.
>
> 1/17 included these foreign cars: City of Lorain (NKP 10-6), UP 4816 (diner),
> Golden West, Mohave, Imperial Palm and Imperial Letter.
>
> 2/17 included these foreigns: GN 1268, NP 492 (lounge), GN 1219, ATSF 1487
> (diner), and GN 1121.
>
> 3/17 had these foreign cars: GN 1267, ATSF 1474 (diner), ATSF 1486 (second
> diner), UP 5418, 5416, 5406, 5421, 4805, 5455, and GN 1290.
>
> Early on 10/9, the inbound Denver Zephyr (one section) will arrive with Golden
> West and Elkhart County. Also on 10/9, the departing DZ will have City of
> Peoria, Ashtabula County, and Tsankwai in the consist. That puts four trains
> in motion to Denver within two hours. 1/17 contain 18 cars, 2/17 24, 3/17 24
> and 1, the DZ, with 18 including RPO Silver Mail. I hope you like E units,
> too!
>
> Inbound 30, the Ak-Zar-Ben Zephyr, will bring Golden Meadow and Golden Horizon
> to Chicago.
>
> I overlooked a head end movement in my earlier post, the Blackhawk (Q),
> Mainstreeter (NP), and Western Star (GN) were consolidated in the late fifties
> between St Paul and Chicago. An example consist from the same report:
>
> #47 departing 10/8 listed from rear end
> Chair Car Seattle 1221 (city name is destination)
> 273 " 1173 (273 is Pullman line number)
> Chair " NP 588
> Diner Mpls 172 a Q hwt.
> 473 " Silver Boulder
> 472 " Sil. Plain
> Chair " UP 5432
> RPO " 2325 a Q hwt.
> Exp. " Q Bge.
> Exp. St. Paul Q Bge.
> News " PRR 5385
> Exp. Portland NP Bge.
> Exp. Seattle NP Bge.
> Exp. " GN Bge.
>
> Using the rule of thumb I developed observing things Q, this train would be
> assigned three E units. One unit per five cars seemed to be the norm. As
> always, exceptions occurred. I suspect the 24 car sections of 17 were assigned
> only four E units each, they only has so many....
>
> #47 had a colorful consist. Without looking at roster, I believe the 1221 and
> 1173 are Q owned cars painted in the Empire Builder scheme, otherwise GN
> ownership would be noted - unless the clerk was taking a short cut. Knowing
> the man, I suspect not. He is a stickler for details, and so was his boss.
>
> Another interesting consist that day was the combined American Royal Zephyr
> (goin' to Kansas City - sing it Wilbur Harrison!), and the Ak-Zar-Ben Zephyr
> heading to Lincoln, NE. Here is the consist from the rear:
>
> Deadhead W. Quincy A GN coach from #48 (to be used for students
> coming east Friday night)
>
> 555 Kansas City Silver Isle
> Chair Car " " 4654 (Former C&NW 400 car)
> Diner Omaha NP 454
> 304 Lincoln NP 482
> 303 " Caparra (I believe it to be a FEC car)
> Chair " 4555 (a rebuilt hwt. 6 wheeled battleship
>
> This train would have had two units elephant style for a quick split at
> Galesburg. The moves were reversed eastbound. Traffic was shrinking on these
> trains. The KC lost the St. Joe coach and sleeper a few years earlier.
> Business people were in the air.
>
> The other foreign car item on this sheet that I find unusual is a car to be
> used on a special on Saturday. The Q borrowed Rock Island 480!
>
> I hope this has not been to boring, especially for the PRR guze........
>
> Ed DeRouin
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