Return-Path: Delivered-To: unknown Received: from mailhost.usrp-ltd.com (10.45.0.93:110) by pegasus.nauer.org with POP3; 07 Jul 2021 23:55:02 -0000 Delivered-To: archives@nauer.org Received: (qmail 2425 invoked by uid 168); 7 Jul 2021 18:30:20 -0500 X-Qmail-Scanner-Diagnostics: from web01.groups.io by mailhost (envelope-from , uid 89) with qmail-scanner-2.10st (clamdscan: 0.99.2/26096. mhr: 1.0. spamassassin: 3.3.2. perlscan: 2.10st. Clear:RC:0(66.175.222.12):SA:0(-5.6/5.0):. Processed in 2.671078 secs); 07 Jul 2021 23:30:20 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.6 required=5.0 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: bounce+11863+62260+703214+1544929@groups.io via mailhost X-Qmail-Scanner: 2.10st (Clear:RC:0(66.175.222.12):SA:0(-5.6/5.0):. Processed in 2.671078 secs Process 2393) Received: from web01.groups.io (66.175.222.12) by mailhost.usrp-ltd.com with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 7 Jul 2021 18:30:17 -0500 Received-SPF: pass (mailhost.usrp-ltd.com: SPF record at groups.io designates 66.175.222.12 as permitted sender) X-Received: by 127.0.0.2 with SMTP id LUxbYY704549xPcjShHbori; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:30:06 -0700 X-Received: from mail-qk1-f177.google.com (mail-qk1-f177.google.com [209.85.222.177]) by mx.groups.io with SMTP id smtpd.web10.4951.1625700604815826818 for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:30:05 -0700 X-Received: by mail-qk1-f177.google.com with SMTP id g4so3861493qkl.1 for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:30:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: EAWCEIxxwV3vuuahdodYseNax703214AA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyfT06T+k3oL913+2VM8AbOYndn9FWPavDXLFs0zOVP///EShRFSqAdO9zWpeMLnntGS5Sip2QEreuJvZYwwHI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4151:: with SMTP id k17mr5026984qko.10.1625700603906; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:30:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <009a01d772e6$5fb45fa0$1f1d1ee0$@gmail.com> <20421.1625672162891221342@groups.io> In-Reply-To: From: "Michael Woodruff" Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 16:29:53 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [External] [CBQ] How was Soda Ash and Silica Sand transported? To: CBQ@groups.io Precedence: Bulk List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Help: Sender: CBQ@groups.io List-Id: Mailing-List: list CBQ@groups.io; contact CBQ+owner@groups.io Delivered-To: mailing list CBQ@groups.io Reply-To: CBQ@groups.io Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000001d02105c690eb9a" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=groups.io; q=dns/txt; s=20140610; t=1625700606; bh=ybduty2+jQeLxa0v1WuLIRQlTJu/xWEFVm/tLDrRM3M=; h=Content-Type:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To; b=esjZ0W9mHf7ZJESSUEsKvU0sfw4iyEO/qPRQ/VdtEnFZmnhl892r4G0/p1UrCOLZEzT WpEseXYhaOZUWbBZNp0ySTyOU4ecAKO0ua8NNBp2RaQNTtiJ5jPklcCuB/F1ekYoMjz73 ys3yNtMGqw6+nHdhH30aLN6pXaGMYnaqqXw= --00000000000001d02105c690eb9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" To back up Eric's comments, a quick perusal of the American Car and Foundry collection of photos in the Barriger Archives on Flickr ( https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/albums/72157649155982802) turned up ACF two-bay covered hoppers built as early as 4/42 (Lot 2338 for the MEC) and 9/42 (Lot 2431 for the CNJ). These were 1,796 cubic foot capacity cars for cement loading. So while covered hoppers may not have been in widespread use until the mid-1950s, they were certainly around more than a decade earlier. msw wa > On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 at 09:36, Eric Mumper wrote: > >> Group, >> >> There is some really good information here and I certainly appreciate >> Ed's comments on Ottawa and Streator as I model the area and have done some >> research on the industries. I would like to quibble a bit with the comment >> of covered hoppers coming into use in the late 50s - my research shows late >> 40s to early 50s for bulk commodities like cement, sand, soda ash, >> limestone, phosphate rock and others. This is backed up by the massive >> orders of ACF style 1958 cuft covered hoppers during this time for many >> railroads and is covered quite well by the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia >> series in 3 issues. >> >> Another note to add to this conversation is about soda ash. The mid-50s >> is where soda ash shifted from manufactured to mined. The UP Green River >> area now provides almost all soda ash. I have records of soda ash coming >> into Owens-Illinois in Streator off the Wabash in 1954. The best guess is >> this originated in Detroit and would be manufactured soda ash. This came >> in the GACX Owens-Illinois Duraglas covered hoppers. Information here: >> http://foxriverbranch.com/node/43 >> >> A lot of the limestone was handled by the Missouri Pacific and more >> specifically the Missouri Illinois in both conventional covered hoppers and >> in 3 bay offset side hoppers with roof additions. >> >> Eric Mumper >> >> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#62260): https://groups.io/g/CBQ/message/62260 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/84035170/703214 Group Owner: CBQ+owner@groups.io Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/CBQ/leave/1544929/703214/691670059/xyzzy [archives@nauer.org] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- --00000000000001d02105c690eb9a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To back up Eric's comments, a quick perusal= of the American Car and Foundry collection of photos in the Barriger Archi= ves on Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/albums= /72157649155982802) turned up ACF two-bay covered hoppers built as earl= y as 4/42 (Lot 2338 for the MEC) and 9/42 (Lot 2431 for the CNJ).=C2=A0 The= se were 1,796 cubic foot capacity cars for cement loading.=C2=A0 So while c= overed hoppers may not have been in widespread use until the mid-1950s, the= y were certainly=C2=A0around more than a decade earlier.

msw
wa

=C2=A0
On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 at 09:36, Eric Mumper <eric.mumper@gmail.com>= wrote:
Group,
There is some really good information here and I certainly appreciate= Ed's comments on Ottawa and Streator as I model the area and have done= some research on the industries.=C2=A0 I would like to quibble a bit with = the comment of covered hoppers coming into use in the late 50s - my researc= h shows late 40s to early 50s for bulk commodities like cement, sand, soda = ash, limestone, phosphate rock and others.=C2=A0 This is backed up by the m= assive orders of ACF style 1958 cuft covered hoppers during this time for m= any railroads and is covered quite well by the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia= series in 3 issues.

Another note to add to this conversation is abo= ut soda ash.=C2=A0 The mid-50s is where soda ash shifted from manufactured = to mined.=C2=A0 The UP Green River area now provides almost all soda ash.= =C2=A0 I have records of soda ash coming into Owens-Illinois in Streator o= ff the Wabash in 1954.=C2=A0 The best guess is this originated in Detroit a= nd would be manufactured soda ash.=C2=A0 This came in the GACX Owens-Illino= is Duraglas covered hoppers.=C2=A0 Information here:=C2=A0=C2=A0http:= //foxriverbranch.com/node/43=C2=A0

A lot of the limestone was ha= ndled by the Missouri Pacific and more specifically the Missouri Illinois i= n both conventional covered hoppers and in 3 bay offset side hoppers with r= oof additions.

Eric Mumper


=20

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