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Message-Id: <7E997EA5-BB8B-4503-A884-B3D9B8443EC9@comcast.net> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 01:42:09 -0600 To: CBQ@groups.io Precedence: Bulk List-Unsubscribe: Sender: CBQ@groups.io List-Id: Mailing-List: list CBQ@groups.io; contact CBQ+owner@groups.io Delivered-To: mailing list CBQ@groups.io Reply-To: CBQ@groups.io X-Gm-Message-State: C73PGBNuiQSTUIixXSAxw3vVx703214AA= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-72D88D7C-9F00-458F-9058-B08A895DF9C5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=groups.io; q=dns/txt; s=20140610; t=1604216970; bh=1NOc6OCHDsdnUXIA0pS+cx3KmryTAC3fRYNMneN/BP4=; h=Content-Type:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To; b=Al2mmRMDIDz4+cqV+sZq0k4L1hbzIVpmqdtBgu+32FdjAlA3dck8OtGTlLTqkGOIrF5 0q6aCG8mlB7HK7m10LweCN4TRYs1PzJ1yuXBis56VsWwo1mAQOZX2ZI1KkI2mjNcrKKfD YTd+6Hqfyj7Kn9ViZIbaYcL1fGQN+514eKQ= --Apple-Mail-72D88D7C-9F00-458F-9058-B08A895DF9C5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BFAll The first 9900 brass (Pacific Traction) model used an article in MR by the= late BRHS member (I think he was a member back in the beginning) Pete Busa= k=E2=80=99s father as research. Unfortunately, the model in the piece was= based on using Mantua Budd aluminum extrusions for the bodies which made t= he train very cartoonish when compared to the prototype. Neither Budd nor the CB&Q had accurate drawings of the 9900....it was cons= tructed =E2=80=9Con the fly=E2=80=9D and nobody thought it was worth found = corrected =E2=80=9Cas-built=E2=80=9D drawings. Marshall Thayer did the fi= rst scale drawings based on how the train actually was constructed that app= eared in RMC and my Pen and Ink Zephyr alpha and numeric zephyr characters = based on Q/Budd drawings accompanied the article. MR did another set late= r. =20 Charlie Vlk >> On Oct 31, 2020, at 9:02 AM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote: > =EF=BB=BFWondering if an HO E5 from Kato would have the same truck mount= ed motors like the HO P42? >=20 > Thanks! > Brian Ehni=20 > (Sent from my iPhone) >=20 >>> On Oct 31, 2020, at 8:51 AM, William Hirt wrote: >> =EF=BB=BF >> I was a little surprised to see Kato polling about this. I spoke at len= gth to someone from Kato about a possible HO scale E5 about 3-4 years ago a= t the spring meet. It was explained to me it was easier to do in N scale as= they already had the mechanism. So the only development was the shell. He = told me it was a little difficult sell to Kato Japan for the N scale versio= n because they could only be released in one railroad. The N scale E5 proje= ct was gap filler because most of the U.S. allocated development money was = allocated to a steam locomotive project at the time. They had already done = the passenger cars, so it was not difficult to package it as a set. >>=20 >> He told me he estimated that to bring out a HO E5 they would need to de= velop both the mechanism and a shell. He then estimated that the retail wou= ld be $800. Pretty much a non-starter at that price point he thought compar= ed to where the rest of the market is. >>=20 >> I would think if they do an E5 they would be thinking about doing other= E unit shells to help spread the cost of developing the mechanism. >>=20 >> Bill Hirt >>=20 >> On 10/30/2020 6:02 PM, Mike Martin via groups.io wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Unless Kato is able to replicate the stainless steel finish similar to= what Walthers and Broadway Limited are capable of I don't know if I'd be i= nterested in either the E5 or the Pioneer Zephyr set from them. I don't th= ink the demand would be there for a Pioneer Zephyr set either unless people= are going to trade up from a Con-Cor set or Nickel Plate Products set. Th= e sets from Challenger are fairly available on the second hand market and o= ften for only about $600 or so which is less than new. If I were Kato or a= nother manufacture I'd be looking at the Mark Twain Zephyr set with the ide= a that you might be able to make the Twin Cities Zephyr set out of the same= power car tooling and possibly the passenger car tooling. >>>=20 >>> The cost of a Kato Pioneer Zephyr is also probably going to be close t= o the cost of a used Challenger Imports set. I don't see it costing for le= ss than $600. If they could get the E5s priced at $600 for an A/B set they= could have a winner on their hands. Again, if they don't get the finish c= orrect it's a non-starter for me. >=20 -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#60716): https://groups.io/g/CBQ/message/60716 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/77924696/703214 Group Owner: CBQ+owner@groups.io Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/CBQ/leave/1544929/691670059/xyzzy [archiv= es@nauer.org] -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- --Apple-Mail-72D88D7C-9F00-458F-9058-B08A895DF9C5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=EF=BB=BFAll
The fi= rst 9900 brass (Pacific Traction) model used an article in MR by the late B= RHS member (I think he was a member back in the beginning) Pete Busak=E2=80= = =99s father as research.   Unfortunately, the model in the piece was = based on using Mantua Budd aluminum extrusions for the bodies which made th= e train very cartoonish when compared to the prototype.
Neither B= udd nor the CB&Q had accurate drawings of the 9900....it was constructe= d =E2=80=9Con the fly=E2=80=9D and nobody thought it was worth found correc= ted =E2=80=9Cas-built=E2=80=9D drawings.   Marshall Thayer did the fir= st scale drawings based on how the train actually was constructed that appe= ared in RMC and my Pen and Ink Zephyr alpha and numeric zephyr characters b= ased on Q/Budd drawings accompanied the article.   MR did another set = later.   
Charlie Vlk



On Oct 31, 2020, at = 9:02 AM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFWondering if an H= O E5 from Kato would have the same truck mounted motors like the HO P42?
Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my = iPhone)

On Oct 31= , 2020, at 8:51 AM, William Hirt <whirt@fastmail.com> wrote:

<= /blockquote>
=EF=BB=BF

I was a little surprised to see Kato polling about this. I spoke at length to someone from Kato about a possible HO scale E5 about 3-4 years ago at the spring meet. It was explained to me it was easier to do in N scale as they already had the mechanism. So the only development was the shell. He told me it was a little difficult sell to Kato Japan for the N scale version because they could only be released in one railroad. The N scale E5 project was gap filler because most of the U.S. allocated development money was allocated to a steam locomotive project at the time. They had already done the passenger cars, so it was not difficult to package it as a set.

He told me he estimated that to bring out a HO E5 they would need to develop both the mechanism and a shell. He then estimated that the retail would be $800. Pretty much a non-starter at that price point he thought compared to where the rest of the market is.

I would think if they do an E5 they would be thinking about doing other E unit shells to help spread the cost of developing the mechanism.

Bill Hirt

On 10/30/2020 6:02 PM, Mike Martin via groups.io wrote:


Unless Kato is able to replicate the stainless steel finish similar to what Walthers and Broadway Limited are capable of I don't know if I'd be interested in either the E5 or the Pioneer Zephyr set from them.  I don't think the demand wou= ld be there for a Pioneer Zephyr set either unless people are going to trade up from a Con-Cor set or Nickel Plate Products set.  The sets from Challenger are fairly available on the second hand market and often for only about $600 or so which is less than new.  If I were Kato or another manufacture I'= d be looking at the Mark Twain Zephyr set with the idea that you might be able to make the Twin Cities Zephyr set out of the same power car tooling and possibly the passenger car tooling.

The cost of a Kato Pioneer Zephyr is also probably going to be close to the cost of a used Challenger Imports set.  I don't see it costing for less than $600.  If they could get the E5s priced at $600 for an A/B set they could have a winner on their hands.  Again, if they don't get the finish correc= t it's a non-starter for me.  


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