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To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: "LZadnichek@aol.com [CBQ]" <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:46:07 -0400
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Steam Roster Disposition Dates [2 Attachments]
Reply-To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
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September 14, 2015
=20
Hol - Thanks. That answers that. One last question. How does the term=20=20
"Condemned" that appears on Locomotive Assignment Sheets fit into the roste=
r=20=20
sequence of "Retired" and "Sold For Scrap?"
=20
I'm attaching two Locomotive Assignment Sheets for the period of July=20=20
through December 1960. They date to the time my late father M.L. Zadnichek =
 was=20
Ottumwa Division Superintendent. Note on both sheets at top far right the =
=20
column of steam locomotive numbers under the heading "Condemned."
=20
Would "Condemned" mean the same as "Retired?" Note the difference in the =
=20
two sheets as steam locomotives were leaving the property to be scrapped an=
d=20=20
were dropped from the list. Also, note that Mark Twain Zephyr diesel=20
locomotive  9903 appears at the bottom of the July-September List, but is g=
one=20
from the  October-December List.
=20
Also, perhaps, more interesting are the remaining steam locomotives=20=20
identified on various divisions. Is it correct to assume these locomotives =
were=20=20
considered at the time to be stored serviceable with the exception of  No. =
35=20
that is clearly marked Exhibition Engine (Exh. Eng.)? Your thoughts and =
=20
comments would be appreciated. Best Regards -  Louis=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
In a message dated 9/9/2015 11:16:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20=20
CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:


Louis:

Usually a locomotive had been stored either  serviceable or unserviceable=20
before it was officially retired, though this was  not always the case.  Bu=
t=20
the date retired is the official date it was  dropped from company records=
=20
and no longer existed as far as the operating  department was concerned. =
=20
Once officially retired the locomotive was  usually pretty quickly sold for=
=20
scrap and moved to the property of the  purchaser, or moved to Eola and=20
scrapped by the company.  When a  locomotive was in really poor condition a=
nd it=20
was not considered practical or  safe to move it to Eola, it would be scrap=
ped=20
where it was, the Denver joint  shops and Lincoln both scrapping=20
locomotives into the mid-1950s.  After  that time, however, virtually all Q=
 steam=20
locomotives were sold for  scrap.  On the C&S a good many locomotives were=
=20
scrapped by the  company at the Seventh Street (Rice Yard) complex in the l=
ate=20
1950s-early  1960s.  And the FW&D scrapped locomotives at Childress but not=
=20
Fort  Worth.  By 1960 the Q was selling everything to Northwest Steel &  Wi=
re=20
at Sterling, Ill., while the C&S and FW&D were shipping  locomotives to=20
Commercial Metals Co. in  Houston.

Hol

=20
____________________________________
 To: cbq@yahoogroups.com
From: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015  13:30:49 -0400
Subject: [CBQ] Steam Roster Disposition Dates


=20
=20
September 7,  2015
=20
Hol and Group - I have some questions on the disposition dates shown for =
=20
steam power in the back of the Corbin book.=20
=20
Where "retired" is shown preceding the date, is that the date the=20=20
Mechanical Department at the Chicago General Offices wrote the locomotive o=
ff  the=20
books?  If so, then is it correct to assume that a communication  then went=
=20
out to the division master mechanic to take that locomotive out of  service=
=20
(if it hadn't already been done) and either store it for  scrap at whatever=
=20
roundhouse it was located, or move  it dead-in-train to a central location=
=20
(such as Galesburg on Lines East  or Lincoln on Lines West) for eventual sa=
le=20
as scrap? Continuing, isn't  it possible that a locomotive after being=20
"retired" could stay on the property  for an extended amount of time in a s=
crap=20
line waiting for scrap prices to  increase if they were low at the time of=
=20
retirement?
=20
Where "sold for scrap" is shown preceding the date, that's much more=20=20
definitive meaning the actual date the locomotive was sold to a scrap compa=
ny  to=20
be dismantled, correct? I would think that the contract with the  scrap=20
company would stipulate that the locomotive had to be delivered  within a=20
certain time frame for the quoted price to be honored, say 30  days, as mar=
ket=20
prices then and now do fluctuate. I've never seen an existing  scrap contra=
ct=20
for a Q steam locomotive, but, having spent many years in the  scrap=20
business, I would speculate the locomotives with their tenders were  purcha=
sed on a=20
lump sum basis calculated from their recorded official  construction=20
weights including delivery at the Q's expense to the scrap  yard.
=20
I would really enjoy seeing a future BRHS Bulletin article on just how  the=
=20
Q went about retiring and selling their steam power during dieselization =
=20
following World War Two. There had to be some kind of measured corporate =
=20
plan on what classes of steam power were to be eliminated first in  conjunc=
tion=20
with what divisions were to be first dieselized and "why."  Dieselization=20
as I understand was commenced on Lines West on the Casper, WY,  division in=
=20
the early 1950s due to poor water conditions and the high expense  of=20
maintaining water treatment plants, correct? Dieselization concluded on  Li=
nes East=20
on the Beardstown, IL, division not quite 10 years later  where coal and=20
water were plentiful and inexpensive.=20
=20
As for classes, it seems for the most part dieselization  was first focused=
=20
upon passenger and switching locomotives, then expanded  into road freight=
=20
locomotives. The Q as I understand took a more  "conservative" stance on=20
dieselization than some competitors that purchased  diesels as fast as they=
=20
could be built to quickly replace their steam power.  Other roads rushed to=
=20
dieselize where as the Q held-on to 2-8-2s, 2-10-4s,  4-6-4s and 4-8-4s tha=
t=20
remained in serviceable condition into the late 1950s.  Although the Q itse=
lf=20
had virtually dieselized its yard, freight and  passenger train operations=
=20
by 1955, it still rostered a good number of  serviceable steam locomotives=
=20
that were stored at Galesburg and Lincoln  for seasonal traffic surges.
=20
What brings all this up is that in collecting digital images of Q  steam=20
power I occasionally come across discrepancies in image dates  and=20
retired/sold for scrap dates. Some of the image dates can be  considered qu=
estionable,=20
but some I think are accurate. So, when I find an  image of an O-1-A under=
=20
steam on such-and-such a date, but the Corbin book  says the O-1-A had been=
=20
retired prior to that date, I  wonder..... Is it possible that a "retired"=
=20
but still serviceable  locomotive could be fired-up and used for a short=20
amount of time, or does  "retired" mean it never ran again after that speci=
fic=20
date?  I think  sold for scrap dates are chiseled in stone and the locomoti=
ve=20
had been  delivered to a scrap yard and dismantled by 30 or so days from th=
e=20
date. I  would appreciate any thoughts or comments on this subject. Best=20
Labor Day  Wishes - Louis
=20
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL
=20
=20
=20
=20=20=20
=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20


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<span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px;" >[<a style="text-decoration: none;" href="#TopText">Attachment(s)</a> from LZadnichek@aol.com included below]</span>
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<FONT id=role_document 
color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV>September 14, 2015</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Hol - Thanks. That answers that. One last question. How does the term 
"Condemned" that appears on Locomotive Assignment Sheets fit into the roster 
sequence of "Retired" and "Sold For Scrap?"</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'm attaching two Locomotive Assignment Sheets&nbsp;for the period of July 
through December 1960. They date to the time my&nbsp;late father M.L. Zadnichek 
was Ottumwa Division Superintendent. Note on both sheets at top far right the 
column of&nbsp;steam locomotive numbers under the heading "Condemned."</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Would "Condemned" mean the same as "Retired?" Note the difference in the 
two sheets as steam locomotives were leaving the property to be scrapped and 
were dropped from the list. Also, note that Mark Twain Zephyr diesel locomotive 
9903 appears at the bottom of the July-September List, but is gone from the 
October-December List.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Also, perhaps, more interesting are the remaining steam locomotives 
identified on various divisions. Is it correct to assume these locomotives were 
considered at the time&nbsp;to be&nbsp;stored serviceable with the exception of 
No. 35 that is clearly marked Exhibition Engine (Exh. Eng.)? Your thoughts and 
comments would be appreciated. Best Regards - 
Louis&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 9/9/2015 11:16:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT 
  style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial><BR><BR><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
  <DIV dir=ltr>Louis:<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Usually a locomotive had been stored either 
  serviceable or unserviceable before it was officially retired, though this was 
  not always the case.&nbsp; But the date retired is the official date it was 
  dropped from company records and no longer existed as far as the operating 
  department was concerned.&nbsp; Once officially retired the locomotive was 
  usually pretty quickly sold for scrap and moved to the property of the 
  purchaser, or&nbsp;moved to Eola and scrapped by the company.&nbsp; When a 
  locomotive was in really poor condition and it was not considered practical or 
  safe to move it to Eola, it would be scrapped where it was, the Denver joint 
  shops and Lincoln both scrapping locomotives into the mid-1950s.&nbsp; After 
  that time, however, virtually all Q steam locomotives were sold for 
  scrap.&nbsp; On the C&amp;S a good many locomotives were scrapped by the 
  company at the Seventh Street (Rice Yard) complex in the late 1950s-early 
  1960s.&nbsp; And the FW&amp;D scrapped locomotives at Childress but not Fort 
  Worth.&nbsp; By 1960 the Q was selling everything to Northwest Steel &amp; 
  Wire at Sterling, Ill., while the C&amp;S and FW&amp;D were shipping 
  locomotives to Commercial Metals Co. in 
Houston.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Hol<BR>&nbsp;<BR>
  <DIV>
  <HR id=stopSpelling>
  To: cbq@yahoogroups.com<BR>From: CBQ@yahoogroups.com<BR>Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 
  13:30:49 -0400<BR>Subject: [CBQ] Steam Roster Disposition Dates<BR><BR><SPAN 
  style="DISPLAY: none">&nbsp;</SPAN> 
  <DIV id=ecxygrp-mlmsg>
  <DIV id=ecxygrp-msg>
  <DIV id=ecxygrp-text><FONT id=ecxrole_document color=#000000 size=2 
  face=Arial></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT id=ecxrole_document color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>September 7, 
  2015</FONT></DIV><FONT id=ecxrole_document color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Hol and Group - I have some questions on the disposition dates shown for 
  steam power in the back of the Corbin book. </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Where "retired" is shown preceding the date, is that the date the 
  Mechanical Department at the Chicago General Offices wrote the locomotive off 
  the books?&nbsp; If so, then is it correct to assume that a&nbsp;communication 
  then went out to the division master mechanic to take that locomotive out of 
  service (if it hadn't already been done)&nbsp;and&nbsp;either store it for 
  scrap&nbsp;at&nbsp;whatever roundhouse it was located, or move 
  it&nbsp;dead-in-train to a central location (such as Galesburg on Lines East 
  or Lincoln on Lines West) for eventual&nbsp;sale as scrap? Continuing, isn't 
  it possible that a locomotive after being "retired" could stay on the property 
  for an extended amount of time in a scrap line waiting for scrap prices to 
  increase if they were low at the time of retirement?</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Where "sold for scrap" is shown preceding the date, that's much more 
  definitive meaning the actual date the locomotive was sold to a scrap company 
  to be dismantled, correct?&nbsp;I would think that&nbsp;the contract with the 
  scrap company would stipulate that the locomotive&nbsp;had to be delivered 
  within a certain time frame for the&nbsp;quoted price to be honored, say 30 
  days, as market prices then and now do fluctuate. I've never seen an existing 
  scrap contract for a Q steam locomotive, but, having spent many years in the 
  scrap business, I would speculate the locomotives with their tenders were 
  purchased on a lump sum basis calculated from their recorded official 
  construction weights including delivery at the Q's expense to the scrap 
  yard.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>I would really enjoy seeing a future BRHS Bulletin article on just how 
  the Q went about retiring and selling their steam power during dieselization 
  following World War Two. There had to be some kind of&nbsp;measured corporate 
  plan&nbsp;on what classes of steam power were to be eliminated first in 
  conjunction&nbsp;with what divisions were to be first dieselized and "why." 
  Dieselization as I understand was commenced on Lines West on the Casper, WY, 
  division in the early 1950s due to poor water conditions and the high expense 
  of maintaining water treatment plants, correct? Dieselization concluded on 
  Lines East on the Beardstown, IL, division&nbsp;not quite&nbsp;10 years later 
  where coal and water were plentiful and inexpensive. </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>As for&nbsp;classes, it seems for the&nbsp;most part&nbsp;dieselization 
  was first focused upon passenger&nbsp;and switching locomotives, then expanded 
  into road freight locomotives. The Q as I understand took a more 
  "conservative" stance on dieselization than some competitors that purchased 
  diesels as fast as they could be built to quickly replace their steam power. 
  Other roads rushed to dieselize where as the Q held-on to 2-8-2s, 2-10-4s, 
  4-6-4s and 4-8-4s that remained in serviceable condition into the late 1950s. 
  Although the Q itself had virtually dieselized&nbsp;its yard, freight and 
  passenger train operations by 1955, it still rostered a good number of 
  serviceable steam locomotives that were&nbsp;stored at Galesburg and Lincoln 
  for seasonal traffic surges.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>What brings all this up is that in&nbsp;collecting digital images of Q 
  steam power I occasionally come across discrepancies&nbsp;in&nbsp;image dates 
  and&nbsp;retired/sold for scrap dates. Some of the image dates can be 
  considered questionable, but some I think are accurate. So, when I find an 
  image of an O-1-A under steam on such-and-such a date, but the Corbin book 
  says&nbsp;the O-1-A had&nbsp;been retired prior to that date, I 
  wonder.....&nbsp;Is it possible that a "retired" but still serviceable 
  locomotive could be fired-up and used for a short amount&nbsp;of time, or does 
  "retired" mean it never ran again after that specific date?&nbsp;&nbsp;I think 
  sold for scrap dates are chiseled in stone and the locomotive had been 
  delivered to a scrap yard and dismantled by 30 or so days from the date. I 
  would appreciate any thoughts or comments on this subject. Best Labor Day 
  Wishes - Louis</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Louis Zadnichek II</DIV>
  <DIV>Fairhope, AL</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV></FONT>
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