Re: [CBQ] California Zephyr Cars on Twin Cities Zephyr and Gallery Cars to Minneapolis / St. Paul

["Bill Schultz via groups.io" <jwschultz9=aol.com@groups.io>]

Tom --

In no particular order:

Three dome coaches were assigned to each of the six CZ consists.  By the mid-'60s, the third Chicago-Oakland dome coach was cut back to operate Chicago-Grand Jct. during the so-called off season (mid-September to mid-December; first week of January through May).  This freed-up two CZ domes, with the spare cars kept in Chicago.  If the Q chose to use an idled Rio Grande or WP car in other than CZ service, it paid the owner the established per diem rate for the use of the car, so a D&RGW or WP dome coach in a Twin Zephyr consist didn't constitute some nefarious cloak-and-dagger act and was a not-infrequent occurrence during the off-season months.  As to whether or not there was a protocol for selecting specific car(s) to be withheld from service I cannot say, but suspect it was based on mileage equalization between the CZ triumvirate and that cars were rotated in-and-out of "spare" status.  

The November 6, 1965 Aurora-Lee rescue train consisted of a pair of E8/9s, a suburban-service generator coach, and two gallery cars.  Upon the train's return to Aurora, the passengers were fed at a local restaurant and boarded that evening's westbound Black Hawk (to which sufficient additional intercity [non-suburban service] cars were added).  There would have been no advantage (and substantial cost) to running an Aurora-St. Paul extra (with or without suburban equipment) three or four hours in advance of the Black Hawk only to have its passengers wait that amount of time in St. Paul before continuing west on the Western Star.        

As to what equipment was used for No. 22 on Sunday November 7, the Q didn't maintain a passenger-car reserve in Minneapolis (i.e., no spare diner or parlor car), so whatever was needed was likely furnished by GN and/or NP, a practice predating the Twin Zephyrs.  In that era, No. 22 regularly received a flat-top coach from both the Builder and North Coast at St. Paul, so whatever (else) was needed amounted to an additional coach or two and some type of restaurant car powered by one of the four motors normally assigned to consolidated Nos. 26-32.  On that day, the parlor car was probably blanked.  

As to earlier questions regarding the use of gallery cars in other than suburban service, they were used sparingly both before and following certain holidays (the Wednesday preceding and Sunday following Thanksgiving, Easter weekend, immediately following New Years Day) and primarily for (college) student traffic.  The earliest example I'm aware of was the November 1962 operation of a second section of the westbound Afternoon Zephyr, a so-called "stub 23" running Chicago-North La Crosse with an E7, generator coach, two gallery cars, and heavyweight diner-lounge.  During the 43-day airline machinist's strike in 1966, Twins 22 and 23 frequently included one or two gallery cars and a generator coach entrained behind the blunt-end dome-parlor car.  The most frequent appearance of gallery cars on the C&I (and beyond) was their use (beginning in 1965 and continuing through 1967) in conjunction with Burlington one-day escorted tours (generally from April through October) from Chicago to East Dubuque or Prairie du Chien.  Hung on the rear-end of Nos. 21 and 24, the cars were set-out at North La Crosse (to avoid individual car in-and-out charges at St. Paul Union Depot), wyed, and added to that afternoon's No. 24.  One to two gallery cars and a generator coach was typical.  Saturday round-trips from suburban territory to- and from White Pines State Park (for scouts) was another frequent occurrence during the clement weather months.  Examples from Saturday September 30, 1967: No. 21 departing Chicago - motors (numbers not recorded), NP 200-series lightweight baggage car (express St. Paul; number not recorded), Chicago-Minneapolis: Silver Treasure, Silver Terrace, Silver Stream, Q 4650; Chicago-St. Paul: Silver Feast, Silver Glade; Chicago-North La Crosse: 714, 774, generator coach (number not recorded).  That same day, a Cicero-White Pines Scout Special ran with four gallery cars and a generator coach (numbers not recorded).

Bill Schultz

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Mack via groups.io <thommack=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: CBQ@groups.io
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2022 5:51 am
Subject: [CBQ] California Zephyr Cars on Twin Cities Zephyr and Gallery Cars to Minneapolis / St. Paul

I believe the topic was asked before (I think by me!) about whether California Zephyr cars ever ran on the Twin Cities Zephyr. The answer is a definite yes based on a recent photo I found. I can't post it because it is on White River Junction Productions' "Slides With Mike Schafer" series CD entitled Growing Up With the Burlington Route, but here is what I found:

The photo is one of many of the Empire Builder / Afternoon Zephyr wreck at Lee, IL on November 6, 1965. Photo 85 clearly shows a WP owner board on a Budd car and the caption states it is Western Pacific Vista-Dome coach Silver Dollar. Silver Dollar was indeed a WP California Zephyr dome coach. So this photo proves the CZ dome coaches showed up on the TCZ at least once in the 1965 to merger era I model! A dome coach is exactly the type of CZ car that I would expect on the TCZ.

What is a bit confusing to me is not the fact that a CZ dome coach was on the TCZ, but it is surprising that the car was a WP owned car. While the Q could certainly do whatever they wanted to with their own CZ cars, it surprised me that they could take a WP CZ car and put it on the TCZ. Any comments on this?

The next problem is how do you get all those passengers from the wreck site to their destination in Minneapolis / St. Paul? Answer: Commuter cars, of course! The night of November 6 the Q brought out a suburban train consist from Aurora to take the stranded passengers to their final destination. Photo 83 shows a night shot of the train. Unfortunately it is hard to see the actual cars in the consist, but I would assume this train included Gallery Cars.

Since "what goes up" to Minneapolis / St. Paul "must come down" back to Aurora, there must have been a train to bring the suburban train back the next day. Does anyone recall seeing photos or info on the train? It would have probably been on November 7, 1965 that it returned. Also, since there was a bunch of TCZ equipment tied up in the wreck, I would imagine the train returned with passengers to Chicago who would have been on the returning Morning Zephyr on November 7, 1965.

It would be cool to model the train if I can find more info on it. Does anyone know anything about the "rescue" train and its consist? Any additional pictures of the Lee, IL wreck out there that anyone knows of?

--
Tom Mack
Cincinnati, OH

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