BRHSLIST
[Top] [All Lists]

RE: [CBQ] C&NW ATS Explanation

To: CB&Q Group <cbq@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [CBQ] C&NW ATS Explanation
From: "Hol Wagner holpennywagner@msn.com [CBQ]" <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 10:14:15 -0600
Authentication-results: mta1001.groups.mail.ne1.yahoo.com from=msn.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig); from=msn.com; dkim=neutral (no sig)
Delivered-to: unknown
Delivered-to: archives@nauer.org
Delivered-to: mailing list CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=echoe; t=1438618692; bh=hwXKIfSpzWCuglcVSCwpm9vZqpt7dKKhlOvsvjKz+yw=; h=To:In-Reply-To:References:From:List-Id:List-Unsubscribe:Date:Subject:Reply-To:From:Subject; b=EBJiq+cNTrzglvbwg3CJAI6Z4q5LA4qXCv/wyu2zF0y/FAHB8E3AimiaevBM+xkXfKw2cI1K17N/uit+nlFWUX3QGey+aQeINhvGBsDRcvsWwoBBTITpVm/daDN6Ih2+usPIJCMqZU46VbnqeNV/0X0fTe+hnJIsamnPTLRG/Ak=
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to: <173cad.20067a8d.42efedae@aol.com>
List-id: <CBQ.yahoogroups.com>
List-unsubscribe: <mailto:CBQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Mailing-list: list CBQ@yahoogroups.com; contact CBQ-owner@yahoogroups.com
References: <173cad.20067a8d.42efedae@aol.com>
Reply-to: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sender: CBQ@yahoogroups.com


Bob, Louis and Group:
 
Bob, that is a great description of the mechanics and functioning of the automatic train control (or more accurately, automatic train stop) hardware installed on a number of Q locomotives for use on C&NW trackage.  For years I have been assembling material for a Burlington Bulletin article on ATC/ATS/cab signals on the Burlington but don't know if I'll ever get it written.  But here's some essential background information on the topic:
 
Many photos taken in the first two decades of the 20th Century show Q locomotives equipped with a  large box mounted laterally on the deck behind the pilot beam, and this is generally referred to as a train control equipment box.  It includes a rod or axle protruding slightly from the end of the box in a fitting that allows rotation of the axle.  There is also a belt from this axle down to the pilot truck axle, and it is pretty obvious that this is part of a speedometer or speed recorder.  And it appears that this is all that the box was for, because the Burlington's early experiments with automatic train stop were limited to just two brief experimental applications involving only three locomotives:
1.  The Rowell-Potter Safety Stop system, tested in 1908-09 on two locomotives over about 5 miles of single track and a short portion of one track of a double-track section near Aurora, Ill.  This device was of the plain mechanical trip type, unusual in that power for its operation was secured through the passage of trains over a treadle, which would wind a powerful spring.
2.  The Gollos Railway Signal Company's intermittent electrical contact type system, tested on one locomotive over six miles of single track near Aurora, Ill., in 1915-16.  Both speed control and cab signals were tested.
 
The Interstate Commerce Commission was pushing railroads to install automatic train control systems to reduce accidents, and in October 1920 a Committee on Automatic Train Control was organized by the American Railway Association and began studying the systems then available.  The federal Transportation Act of 1920, returning railroads to their former private ownership after the years of USRA control, gave the ICC authority to order the installation of train control on American railroads after proper investigation.  And in January 1922 the ICC issued an order requiring 49 railroads to show cause why they should not install train control on a complete passenger division.  Railroads fought the order with minimal success, and eventually the Q, GN and NP settled on the Sprague Safety Control & Signal Corp.'s intermittent magnetic induction device with magnets permanently installed in the track.  The C&NW went with the intermittent tapered speed control system which was the immediate forerunner of General Railway Signal Co.'s intermittent inductive system.  And therein lies the reason Q locomotives had to be equipped with the GRS system employed by C&NW.
 
Under the initial ICC order and a second one mandating ATC installation on a second full passenger division, the Q first outfitted the Ottumwa Division double track from Creston to Pacific Junction, Iowa, 82.1 miles, and then the Omaha Division trackage from Pacific Junction north to Council Bluffs and then west to Omaha and Lincoln, 80.3 miles.  All the passenger and freight locomotives operating over this trackage were required to be equipped with ATC.
 
The ARA's Committee on Automatic Train Control issued a lengthy bulletin on the development and progress of ATC in 1930, and it notes that the CB&Q operated over 5.4 road miles of C&NW trackage between Agnew and Sterling, Ill., that were equipped with the GRS 2-speed system and that as a result the Q had four locomotives equipped with that system.  The July 1929 Q assignment sheet shows R-5 2063 as the only locomotive so equipped, however, by August 1931 the equipment had been removed from the 2063 but by then was installed on three other R-5s: 2094, 2107 and 2118.
 
Some railroads embraced ATC -- including C&NW and its ally, UP -- while others found it to be a waste of money and resources.  In 1931 the Q, GN and NP petitioned the ICC to be allowed to discontinue their use of ATC, and with the Depression threatening the financial health of the nation's railroad systems, the petition was granted in 1932 and the three roads quickly began removing the equipment from their locomotives and track.  By the end of 1933 there were only a handful of Q locomotives still outfitted with the Sprague equipment -- plus the three Chicago & Aurora Division R-5s outfitted with GRS equipment for use over those 5.4 miles of C&NW track.
 
An extensive search through the assignment sheets in my collection reveals that those three R-5s -- 2094, 2107 and 2118 -- would remain the only Q locomotives equipped with ATC all the way through late 1946, until the retirement of the 2094 in October 1946.  Sometime between January and June 1948 the GRS ATC equipment from retired 2094 was installed on R-5-A 2052, once again providing three locomotives with the equipment.  When the 2107 was sold for scrap in November 1948, its ATC equipment was moved to R-5-A 2151, and thus the situation remained until April 1950, when GRS ATC equipment was added to the first and only diesels to be so equipped by the Q: NW2s 9208 and 9209, also Chicago & Aurora Division locomotives.  The lone R-5 and two R-5-As remained equipped with ATC until their retirement, but they were used only when necessary after the two diesels were equipped.  The 2052 was sold for scrap in June 1951, the 2118 in August 1951, and finally the 2151 in September 1953.  All three were likely sold to Northwestern Steel & Wire, whose plant at Sterling was reached by the Q over the C&NW track from Agnew.
 
As I've noted, a look at all the assignment sheets in my collection from 1930 through 1954 fails to reveal any other Q locomotives outfitted with automatic train control.  No other diesels except the two NW2s were ever shown as being outfitted with ATC (not to be confused with the cab signals installed in all Q E-units after 1947), and thus the three TR2 sets assigned to the C&A Division were never equipped.
 
Hope all this provides a better understanding of the use of ATC by the Q.
 
Hol
 

To: cbq@yahoogroups.com
From: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2015 18:03:27 -0400
Subject: [CBQ] C&NW ATS Explanation [1 Attachment]

 
[Attachment(s) from LZadnichek@aol.com included below]
August 2, 2015
 
Group - Some time ago there was a thread about Class R locomotives that were equipped with ATS for operation over the C&NW from Agnew to Sterling, IL. I've attached/inserted an image showing the front end of Q 2107 that was so equipped. The locomotive was photographed in storage at Eola, IL, on August 8, 1937. 
 
I first shared this photograph with Group members Bill Barber and Bob Campbell asking for details on how 2107 was so equipped and how the ATS worked. Bob has provided a very interesting explanation of the photograph that should interest fans of Lines East and Q locomotive modelers. Best Regards - Louis
 
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL   
 
- - - -
 
Bill/Louis -  
 
The axle drive and the box directly above it are actually the speed indicator/recorder mechanism.  Notice the pipe coming out of the left side of the box on an upward angle.  It extends under the boiler jacketing until just before reaching the front of the cab (it crosses over the left washout plug).  Once in the cab, it is attached to the speed indicator/recorder, most likely a Barco (The Barrington Co.) unit.  The pipe housed a chain-like piece that rotated inside the pipe. I believe the speed indicator drive was attached to the pilot wheel for simplicity's sake; attaching the drive to the firebox support axle (not a truck since the axle slid laterally in the journal boxes which were affixed to the rigid locomotive frame) may have required more work. 
 
Since Automatic Train Stop is a system based on the speed of an engine/train, it was necessary for the locomotive to have some kind of a speed indicator so the engineer would know more precisely what his speed was in order to comply with ATS rules.  Bill, I believe you had an old Locomotive Assignment (for maintenance) Sheet that indicated there were about eight R-class Prairies that were equipped with ATS (maybe it was Karl Rethwisch that looked this up).  In the transition from steam to diesel-electric, this ATS equipment, which was owned, outright, by the Q, was removed from the steam engines and applied to NW-2 switchers and the cab-equipped calf units of the TR transfer units (9400B, etc.).
 
If you look closely, right behind the boiler tube pilot of the 2107, you will notice a square bar to the rear of the pilot step.  This is the induction bar for the ATS and all of its electrical gear that is mounted in the box on top of the pilot that looks very similar to the Automatic Cab Signal boxes we are familiar with on Q steam and diesels.
 
One last comment about ATS ala the C&NW version.  The 6ET automatic brake valve was modified from original equipment in that it had a lock and key on it very similar to a household entry door lock.  The ATS rules required after completing a successful initial terminal air brake test prior to departure from the initial station (Sterling or Denrock), the conductor was supposed to be given the key to the automatic brake valve.  The automatic brake valve functioned normally for the engineer, but, should he have to place the train in an emergency brake application, the conductor had to walk up from the way car (with the key, of course), determine the cause of the emergency application and then unlock the brake valve for the engineer to resume normal operation of the brake valve. 
 
Don't know if this was actually practiced, but that's what the ATS rules required.  That assignment that ran from Sterling to Agnew over the C&NW main line and then on to Lyndon and turning at Denrock on the Q, belonged to Galesburg Division crews so I never saw the operation with ATS.  When I hired out, there were three switch jobs assigned to Aurora Division crews at Sterling and every one of the switch engines was equipped with ATS and the key was in its place on the brake valve.  Don't recall ever having to "big-hole" the train while working Sterling jobs, but there would be no problem since the key was where it needed to be, for me.
 
The CB&Q went to a lot of expense to have trackage rights via the C&NW for such a short distance.  Old man, "Dillion", who owned the Northwestern Steel & Wire plant had a lot of influence over how he routed his shipments from his plant.  I know in my years working the engineer's extra board at Aurora, Mr. Dillion never missed an "ICC Discontinuance Hearing" to close down the Earlville to Rock Falls branch.  This went on for years until Dillion died in his late 90's I believe.  When he passed away, shortly thereafter the Earlville - Rock Falls branch was abandoned and NS&W bought diesel switch engines to work the steel mill.  Good bye ex-GTW 0-8-0's!
 
Archie Hayden was a Galesburg Division trainman and may add comments.  I don't know if Archie ever worked the Denrock way freight or not, but he did spend most of his career working out of Hannibal, MO, his home town (Hannibal Division).  Might also see a comment from Bud Linroth who was also a Galesburg Division trainman.
 
Bob
 
- - - -
 




__._,_.___

Posted by: Hol Wagner <holpennywagner@msn.com>



__,_._,___
<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>