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RE: [Bulk] Re: [CBQ] Sleeper Photos

To: <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [CBQ] Sleeper Photos
From: "'Dave Lotz' Dave_Lotz@bellsouth.net [CBQ]" <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 16:39:25 -0400
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Rich,
 
Who was this intended for?
 
David Lotz
113 Magnolia Drive
Pooler, GA  31322-4116
 
Phone: 912-376-5542
Like us on Facebook: FB.com/QConnection
Follow us on Twitter: twitter.com/QConnectionDave
-----Original Message-----
From: CBQ@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 4:57 PM
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [CBQ] Sleeper Photos

 

ZR,


Did you ever put me in for a reservation with Coach Yard for a Zephyr Tower?  I'd be interested in getting a brass one.

TZ


-----Original Message-----
From: qchooch@aol.com [CBQ] <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 10, 2015 11:53 am
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Sleeper Photos

 
The first "Betterment" Pullman sleepers on the CB&Q system were those re-built by Pullman for the FW&D/C&S Texas Zephyr in 1940. There were 6 built, 8-5 Castle Crest/Castle Range, 12-1 Spanish Crest/Spanish Range and 10-1-1 Lariat Crest/Lariat Range.

These were Pullman's attempt to provide sleepers that matched the remaining Budd stainless steel lightweight cars in the Texas Zephyr consist without actually designing fluted lightweight sleepers. Budd had already done so for the 1936 Denver Zephyr consists which touched off the issue of car builders, other than Pullman and specifically Budd, building sleepers, resulting in the 1940 anti-trust suit against Pullman by the government for maintaining the monopoly of both building and operating sleepers for all railroads. The suit would not be settled until 1948 when Pullman sold off many cars to the railroads with the railroads then leasing them back to Pullman for operation.

Kalmbach published a small 6" by 8" volume of Pullman Lettering and Paint schemes authored by Arthur Dubin, who received the information from the paint shop foreman at Pullman. It contains builder's photos and painting diagrams of the 1940 FW&D/C&S Pullmans which had a unique silver and white paint scheme with barely distinguishable stripes between the color bands.

The next year, 1941 saw the Q being supplied by Pullman with a second group of Betterment sleepers, the 8-3-1 Denver Tower and Missouri Tower for General Pershing Zephyr service between St. Louis and Denver for through service on the Exposition Flyer to Oakland. This service was intermittent on the Q and MP up to 1946 when the cars were then assigned to the Blackhawk service between Chicago and Minneapolis/St.Paul.

Additionally in 1941 the 8-3-1 Zephyr Tower (Q) and Rocket Tower (Rock Island) were supplied for the joint Q/Rock Island Zephyr Rocket service between St. Louis and the Twin Cities, along with two 10-3 Pullmans, Minneapolis (Q) and Cedar Rapids (Rock Island).

The Tower series cars were all originally heavyweight 10-2 Pullmans in Pullman green until the rebuilding in 1941, the 10-3's were originally 12-1's. The Tower and City cars used a straight silver paint scheme with black Pullman lettering, but not the previous white/silver scheme of the Texas Zephyr cars.

Hol Wagner provides a complete and thorough description of the Tower series St. Louis- Denver car service in the excellent BRHS Bulletin #42 on the Exposition Flyer along with photos.

The Terminal Railroad Association of St. Louis (TRRA) published a complete volume on the Zephyr Rocket in 2012 which is still available for sale. It contains a full description of the Pullman coordination for the Tower and Cities Betterment sleepers provided for the Zephyr Rocket with photos of the cars also included.

Concerning models of these cars, per previous e-mail Tom Schneid at NKP car shops has excellent kits for both Tower and Cities Pullmans as well as the Texas Zephyr's three Pullman sleeper configurations. 
His completed Tower and Cities Zephyr Rocket models took an award at the 2014 BRHS fall meet model contest. They rival brass models when finished.

The Coachyard has a tentative listing for the 1940 Texas Zephyr on it's web site along with additional cars including the Denver Tower and Zephyr Tower 8-3-1's and the Texas Zephyr Betterment Pullmans. Production of these will depend on reservations received.

Thanks- Dennis Popish     


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Kenneth Middleton' krmiddle@charter.net [CBQ] <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2015 2:56 pm
Subject: [CBQ] Sleeper Photos

 
Does anyone have or know of any fairly early photos (even builders photos would be great) of any of the rebuilt Plan 4090C or Plan 4090E 8 Section - 1 Drawing Room - 3 Double Bedroom Sleepers? These would have included "Zephyr Tower," "Denver Tower" and "Missouri Tower." In later years these appeared painted in silver with semi-streamlined roofs and skirts, and had Burlington's streamline style lettering. Were they that way when rebuilt in 1941 from earlier sleeping cars, or were they more conventional looking in Pullman green with clerestory roofs and without skirting?
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Best regards,
Ken Middleton
Portage, MI
krmiddle@charter.net



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Posted by: "Dave Lotz" <dave_lotz@bellsouth.net>



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