Maybe this has been answered, I can't tell with this new format. As I recall there had to be a 5 car spacing between any occupied engine or waycar and hazardous material. That was the rule I worked under.
Mitch
---In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, <mcaff1@...> wrote:
I have been watching this discussion regarding oil movements with great interest. I have a colorized version of the Q oil train behind the FTs in my den. Looking closely at the picture, there appears to be a box car immediately behind the rear FT serving as spacer car.
Mike Cafferata
---In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, <runextra@...> wrote:
>I do not believe the spacer car practice existed in pre 1990s railroading...
That is certainly not true.
When I hired out as fireman on the Penn Central in 1968 the railroad HazMat regs were almost the same as today. I just now dug out my Penn Central 1968 "Hazardous Materials Regulations" booklet.It is a red colored 103 page booklet.
On page 13 it says..
"171.2 Act Of Congress. (a) Section 833, Title 18 of the United States Code approved Sept 6, 1960 (Public Law 710, 86th Congress) which amended the act approved June 25, 1948 (Public Law 722, 80th Congress) provides that... "
and it continues on from there about violations, placarding, classifications, and handling. I haven't re-read thru the whole book and its been over 40 years since I operated under those rules but skimming thru it appears to be pretty close to the HazMat regs I operated under on the BNSF when I retired 5 years ago.
I see that crude oil and gasoline were to be classified as Flamable Liquids and placarded Dangerous. This PC booklet has the usual car placement restrictions (not next to engine or caboose, etc) as the modern regs.
However it also has the usual exception in that if the train is entirely placarded cars of this type (in other words what we now call a unit train) then no buffer cars are required. But if there are other cars that could be used as buffers then they must be used as buffers.
So it appears that this stuff has been around for quite a while.
---In cbq@yahoogroups.com, <Jpslhedgpeth@...> wrote:
OK guys..Don't forget that there were always rules about separating cars containing "dangerous" or "explosives' X number of cars from the engine or waycar..I think X was usually 5....However it may be that the oil in those days was not considered "dangerous"....I can't remember for sure but I think there were also rules for "flamable" or "inflamable" lading being spaced. All long before the FRA came along
Pete
-----Original Message----- From: William Jackson <macon249@...> To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 5:14 pm Subject: Re: [CBQ] Spacer Car Question
Yes, I think Leo is right, the FRA came in in 1973 so unless they had something in the timetable it was nothing!
William Jackson
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 5, 2013, at 4:16 PM, Leo <qutlx1@...> wrote:
I do not believe the spacer car practice existed in pre 1990s railroading
Leo Phillipp
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 5, 2013, at 3:13 PM, "John D. Mitchell, Jr." < cbqrr47@...> wrote:
It is more likely that those boxcars contained "package products", from the refinery. Those were such things as grease buckets, canned motor oil, and other lubricates in five gallon cans. I remember, as a boy, seeing the Q switch the refinery at Hartford, Illinois. There was always a long line of tank cars for gasoline, diesel fuel, etc. with few boxcars for package products.
The tank car train in the photo Dave Lotz posted appears to have one or two boxcar behind the FT ABBA set. What was the crew protection rule for spacer cars when transporting explosives and flammables? Were spacers used in front of the waycar and behind the locomotive/tender?
Nelson Moyer
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