I'm going to print this stuff out so I can have it at hand and then go through
and point out examples of the old "railroad correspondence talk"..There are
more examples here than I referred to yesterday.
My railfan buddy Jim Christen and I made several trips on the Corning-Villisca
branch in car 3537 during the 1950's...However it didn't make it to the
end..Jim and Charlie Able made a trip Villisca to Corning in late summer 1958
just before the line was severed between Northboro, and Clarinda, IA. I don't
have a close up picture of the car on the train that day, but the one I have
seen shows ...from a distance that it was one of the converted motor car
trailers.
3537 was destroyed in a rear end collision at Alexandria, MO in the early
1960's...A contributor to this list now has possession of the stove from this
car. He will remain an "unidentified person of interest" unless he chooses to
reveal himself herein.
I'll have more commentary on the correspondence soon.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: HOL WAGNER <holpennywagner@msn.com>
To: CB&Q Group <cbq@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:51 am
Subject: [CBQ] More Correspondence
Here's some more passenger car related correspondence from 1953 from the files
at the Colorado Railroad Museum Library. Refer to yesterday's posting for
identification of the individuals involved.
Urbach to Moody and Melker, Chicago, 9/23/1953:
Listed below are combination passenger-baggage cars operating on branch lines
as shown:
3530 - Centerville-Brookfield
3531 - Keokuk-Centerville
3533 - Aurora, Neb.-Burwell
3534 - Old Monroe-Mexico
3535 - Sterling-Cheyenne
3536 - Helvey-Hebron
3537 - Villisca-Corning
3538 - Gibson-Ashland
These cars are 49 and 50 years old, and wish you would please have thorough
inspection made of each car to determine their condition, letting me know as
soon as possible whether or not any of them are in such condition that you feel
they might be retired within the next year or two, or whether extensive repairs
will be needed at any time within the next year to continue them in service,
and would be justified.
Prompt handling will be appreciated.
These combines had been converted in company shops during 1948 and 1949 from a
group of old wooden coaches (and originally chair cars) built by American Car &
Foundry Co. in 1903-04 and subsequently outfitted with steel underframes and
steel sheathed by Pullman in 1924. Of the nine cars converted to combines, one
-- 3532 -- had been destroyed in an accident prior to 1953, and the remaining
eight were evenly split between Lines East and Lines West branches (though the
run from Omaha's Gibson Yard to Ashland, Neb., can hardly be considered a
branch). The only response we have access to is from Lines West: After C.A.
Moody sent a virtual copy of Urbach's letter to car inspector F.R. Jones on
Sept. 25, Jones complied with the request and returned the letter on Oct. 19
with a penciled note appended: "All of these cars on L.W. OK for another 1 or 2
years without extensive repairs." Moody amplified this in his response to
Urbach:
Moody to Urbach, Denver, 10/19/1953:
Combination Passenger-Baggage Cars Operating on Branch Lines
Referring to your joint letter September 23, file 415.001, above subject.
Had General Car Inspector Jones look at these cars listed on Lines West as
shown below, and he advises cars will last another two years without extensive
repairs, after that period, they will be in such condition they shold be
retired.
3533
3535
3536
3538
As it turned out, the first of these cars (not counting the 3532) to be retired
was the 3535, scrapped at Eola just over two years later, in January 1956. The
others lasted into the 1960s, the last one -- 3533 -- going to an El Paso,
Tex., scrapper in December 1967.
On to another topic: heavyweight dining cars:
Bloom to Moody, Lincoln, 8/27/53:
Condition of Diner 185
Physical condition of diner 185, which is used by the dining car department as
a refreshment car on baseball and football specials, is bad.
It should be moved to Aurora shops for general repairs. Underframe of car is
rusted and in bad condition. Doors rusted and about beyond repairs. We have
been patching them for quite sometime.
All steam line pipes under car rusted to the point where all pipes should be
renewed. Trucks and brake rigging need a general overhauling.
Moody to Urbach, Havelock, 9/4/1953:
Condition of Diner 185
Am quoting Master Mechanic Bloom's letter Aug. 27:
"Physical condition of diner 185, which is used by the dining car department as
a refreshment car on baseball and football specials, is bad.
It should be moved to Aurora shops for general repairs. Underframe of car is
rusted and in bad condition. Doors rusted and about beyond repairs. We have
been patching them for quite sometime.
All steam line pipes under car rusted to the point where all pipes should be
renewed. Trucks and brake rigging need a general overhauling."
For your information.
The 185 was a Pullman-built dining car turned out in the summer of 1922. Before
anything could be done about its condition, however, general superintendent of
transportation W.B. Simmons in Chicago wired Moody:
Simmons to Moody, Chicago, 9/10/1953:
STRIP DINER 185 NOW OMAHA HAVE CAR EQUIPPED WITH COOLING BEVERAGE TANK HAVE CAR
CLEANED AND PUT ON TRN 26 FROM OMAHA TOMORROW 11TH DH TO KANS CITY FOR USE WITH
DELASALLE HIGH SCHOOL PARTY SEPT 12TH TO OMAHA AND RETURN. WHEN CAR IS RELEASED
AT KANS CITY MORNING OF SEPT 13TH IT IS TO BE MOVED ON TRN 27 OR 23 SEPT 13TH
DH TO OMAHA.
Urbach to Moody, Chicago, 9/9/1953:
Referring to your letter September 4, file 412.013 Q, about diner 185.
Am wondering what car you would have in mind to use for replacement.
Moody to Urbach, Havelock, 10/5/1953:
412.013
Your letter of September 9, referring to my letter of Sept. 4, regarding
condition of diner 185.
We have no replacement car available. This diner should be shopped after the
foot-ball season.
Urbach to Moody, Chicago, 12/10/1953:
412.013
You have at Lincoln, dining car 185 equipped with counter equipment, which has
been used during the past two years for special assignments.
Wish you would arrange to have this equipment removed and stored in the
basement of Lincoln station.
Car should be thoroughly drained, batteries removed, and set aside for further
disposition.
Moody to Bloom, Denver, 12/11/1953:
412.013 Q
Note the following from Mr. Urbach dated December 10th:
"You have at Lincoln, dining car 185 equipped with counter equipment, which has
been used during the past two years for special assignments.
Wish you would arrange to have this equipment removed and stored in the
basement of Lincoln station.
Car should be thoroughly drained, batteries removed, and set aside for further
disposition."
Arrange to handle accordingly.
Presumably the 185 was eventually shopped at Aurora, because it remained on the
roster until 1961, when it was scrapped at Eola. One of the 1922 Pullman diners
had been scrapped in 1951 and another went into company service in 1953, but
after that none were retired until the 185's scrapping in 1961.
Following are a couple more telegrams from Simmons relating to use of
heavyweight dining cars on MAIN trains, which were military troop trains,
assigned consecutive four-digit numbers by the government. Both these wires
were sent the same day, nine minutes apart:
Simmons to Moody, Chicago, 11:20 a.m., 4/20/1953:
DINERS 174 AND 184 WITH DORMITORY MONTIZUMA [sic] NOW LINCOLN TO BE PICKED UP
AT LINCOLN BY MAINS 1890 AND 1892 PASSING LINCOLN EARLY AM APRIL 22ND ENROUTE
BILLINGS. THEN ALL THREE CARS TO CUT OUR AFTER SUPPER APRIL 22ND AT SHERIDAN TO
RETURN DEADHEAD TRAIN 42 APRIL 23RD TO LINCOLN AND RELEASE.
Simmons to Moody, Chicago, 11:29 a.m., 4/20/1953:
DINER 181 WITH PULLMAN DORMITORY 638 LEAVE CHGO DEADHEAD TRAIN 19 APRIL 21ST TO
BURLINGTON. THEN LEAVE BURLINGTON TRAIN 44 SAME DAY TO HANNIBAL TO BE PICKED UP
BY MAINS 2000 AND 2001 DUE OUT ST LOUIS 11PM APR 21ST ENROUTE DENVER FOR
ARRIVAL 1159PM APR 22ND. HOWEVER DINER 181 AND DORMITORY 638 TO CUT OUT AFTER
SUPPER APR 22ND WITH MEETING POINT OF TRAIN 6 THENCE DEADHEAD OMAHA THEN TRAIN
32 APRIL 23RD TO CHGO AND RELEASE.
Of interest in these telegrams is the use of a heavyweight sleeping car as a
dormitory car for the dining car crews. The dorm cars were among the 45
heavyweights purchased from Pullman in December 1948 and assigned Q numbers in
the 600 series. A good many of the cars were still in Pullman lease, some
remaining in sleeping car service into the early 1960s. As the cars came out of
lease, however, they had all Pullman identification removed and were given
their assigned Q numbers, used thereafter as dormitory cars or emergency
coaches. The two cars mentioned in these wires were sisters, both
10-section/lounge/observation cars with open platforms, both built in 1911. The
"Montezuma" was destined to become Q 639, while the 638 had previously been the
"Maneko." The 638 figures in another series of letters later in the year:
Melker to Moody, Chicago, 11/4/1953:
412.013 Q
Dormitory car 638 moved from Lincoln to Omaha October 30 and from Omaha to
Kansas City on train #22, November 1st.
This car was to be occupied by the dining car crew and have report that there
were no lights no water in the car. Also, the car was very dirty and had such
odor that most of the crew slept in the dining car, which is against health
regulations. No doubt we would have been fined considerable had the health
authorities been on the train.
Will you please investigate this matter and advise.
Moody passed the letter on to Lincoln and Omaha master mechanics C.E. Bloom and
G.P. Salter and heard back from the both:
Bloom to Moody, Lincoln, 11/13/1953:
Dormitory Car 638
412.013 Q
Your letter of Nov. 4, file 412.013 Q, on above subject.
When this car left Lincoln it was clean and had water and good lights. Our
passenger yard foreman at Lincoln states this claim can be verified by Dining
Car Superintendent Tom Hart who saw car before it departed from here on this
trip.
Salter to Moody, Omaha, 11/24/1953:
Dormitory Car 638
412.013 Q
Your letter Nov. 5th, above subject and file:
Our records show this car arrived Omaha on train No. 14 occupied by dining car
crew handling diner 174 and departed on #22 same evening and it is not our
practice to enter occupied cars, except on request for cleaning. The car was
watered at our Omaha Passenger Yard after the arrival of #14 and lights were
also checked by our electricians and no exceptions taken; however have lined up
all concerned to watch this matter more closely in the future.
Moody to Melker, Denver, 11/25/1953:
Dormitory Car 638
412.013 Q
Your letter of November 4, above file and subject.
Mr. Bloom advises that when this car left Lincoln, it was clean and had water
and good lights. Our passenger yard foreman at Lincoln states this claim can be
verifited by Dining Car Superintendent Tom hart, who saw car before it departed
from there on this trip.
Mr. Salter states his record shows this car arrived Omaha on train No. 14,
occupied by dining car crew handling diner 174, and departed on No. 22 same
evening, and it is not our practice to enter occupied cars except on request
for cleaning. The car was watered at our Omaha passenger yard after the arrival
of No. 14 and lights were also checked by our electricians and no exceptions
taken; however, have lined up all concerned to watch this matter more closely
in the future.
Another group of the old Pullman cars -- plan 2410A 12-section/1 drawing room
cars built in 1913-14 -- are the subject of this correspondence:
Urbach to Simmons, Chicago, 5/19/1953:
412.012
Referring to your letter May 13, file B, about using cars Adriatha, Morehead
and Pocomoke for either dormitory or coach service.
We made inspection of these cars at Lincoln, and find that they can be
conditioned at nominal expense for such use, and if you will arrange to have
them moved to Aurora Shop we will plan to clean them up and install batteries.
Please advise when we may expect them at the shop.
Urbach appended a note on the carbon copy to Melker:
When above cars are received at Aurora Shop, arrange to give them a thorough
cleaning, both interior and exterior, and you will need to furnish requisition
to the Store Department cover three car-stes of 350 amp. hr. car-lighting
batteries, since the cars were returned to us without this equipment. [When the
cars came out of Pullman lease, Pullman removed the batteries.]
Please advise as cars are ready for service.
Simmons to Moody, Chicago, 1:51 p.m., 5/21/1953:
SLEEPERS ADRIATHA MOREHEAD AND POCOMOKE NOW STORED AT LINCOLN NEBRASKA ARRANGE
DEADHEAD CONVENIENT FRT TRAIN TO AURORA SHOP FOR REPAIRS.
Melker to N.J. Bricher (Aurora Shops superintendent), Chicago, 6/17/1953:
412.012
Referring to correspondence ending with your letter of June 8, in regard to
CB&Q owned Pullman cars Adriatha, Morehead and Pocomoke which were sent to
Aurora Shops for attention.
All Pullman markings should be obliterated and replaced with CB&Q lettering;
these cars to be renumbered 606, 608 and 609 respectively.
I'll finish up this little bit of history later today or tomorrow.
Hol
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