List, If you open up the Train register folder after clicking on
photos, you have the capability of enlarging the image for closer
scrutiny. If you follow the link for new photos at the bottom of a
post, I don't think you can get the larger image, FYI, Archie
On Dec 4, 2010, at 7:34 PM, archie hayden wrote:
> Gerald and list, I uploaded a scan of a 1905 Drover's ticket in the
> photo section under the Train Register folder. Check out the neat
> "description of passenger" part of the ticket and someone see if they
> can decipher where in Kansas the ticket was good to. Thanks, Archie
> On Dec 4, 2010, at 4:24 PM, Gerald Edgar wrote:
>
> >
> > Belle Plaine, IA was a C&NW Div Point @ one time with a large 2-
> > story depot/hdq not unlike some on the Q. Also had a full
> > roundhouse, in the day (and one of the stations on the Iowa main
> > still with telegraph in late 70's - connected to Tama and one other
> > station.)
> > Two comments to the gentlemens excellent memories. I have never had
> > the chance to speak to anyone who shipped livestock on the Q but
> > have spoken to a man who as a kid rode with his Dad on Milwaukee
> > from Garner, IA to CUS with their cattle. They indeed rode on
> > caboose (many RR's had so-called drovers' cabooses which were either
> > a regular caboose with a couple old coach sets added or a converted
> > old coach). As the gentleman said, some ranchers/farmers rode with
> > the livestock as a) could insure they well fed enroute and b) get
> > top price in chicago. Old Q TT's note special fares/passes for
> > Drovers as well as Clergy, etc.
> >
> > As for ranches having their own chutes, some could still be seen
> > along the old ROW in the Black Hills on the Edgemont to Lead/
> > Deadwood line a couple yrs ago. thiose who attended the Annual Meet
> > in Dubuque 5 yrs ago saw the chute & small pen at Proving Grounds,
> > IL (Savanna Ordinance Depot) used by farmer who grazed cattle on
> > land within the complex. Still intact!
> >
> > TKS for sharing Steve!
> >
> > PS - a place on BN still getting cattle in 1970's was Sioux City -
> > have slide of former GN Big Sky Blue locos not yet repainted leading
> > an old GN stock car followed by a Boeing enclosed fuselage car in
> > mid-late 70's Quite an unusual consist! Sioux City was another
> > major packing center with Q funneling in traffic to GN @ So. Sioux
> > City as well as Milw, IC & C&NW coming into town along with local
> > switching line: Sioux City Terminal. Even today there is a
> > shortline operation belonging to L.G. Everist, the ballast folks.
> >
> >
> > Gerald
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
> > From: doug.harding@iowacentralrr.org
> > Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 12:19:54 -0600
> > Subject: [CBQ] livestock shipments
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In the past month there has been discussion about livestock
> > shipments via
> > rail. Today I had an opportunity to visit via telephone with a 90
> > year old
> > fellow from Belle Plaine, Iowa who spent his entire life dealing
> with
> > livestock and the shipment of livestock, primarily via the railroad,
> > the
> > CNW. What follows are redacted notes I took during our conversation.
> > Note
> > especially that his comments and recollections many times confirm
> > what has
> > been discussed, but at times his comments are different from what I
> > have
> > said in the past. I plan to update my thoughts about livestock
> > movements
> > based upon this interview.
> >
> > Doug Harding
> >
> > www.iowacentralrr.org
> >
> > Purebreed breeding stock usually came from the east, ie purebreds
> > came from
> > Ohio, etc
> >
> > railroad did the cleaning of stockcars and was responsible for
> > providing/replacing the bedding. Cleaning of cars at Belle Plaine
> > was often
> > done elsewhere. The railroad would ship the cars to a ?clean out?
> > track.
> >
> > Bedding was typically sand, with hay added in the winter. The sand
> was
> > preferred as it added traction in the cars, especially as the car
> > floors got
> > slippery with manure. The sand could be wetted in the summer, which
> > enabled
> > cooling for animals, esp hogs.
> >
> > prairie grass was the preferred bedding, not straw or alfalfa or
> > other kinds
> > of hay
> >
> > straw had too much chaff, wind would blow chaff into the eyes of the
> > animals
> >
> > prairie grass has no chaff, nor would it cause loose stools
> >
> > often there was a trailer (car) load of hay in a stock train,
> > probably a
> > boxcar. The animals would come with their own hay. A stock train
> > might also
> > have feed in a car for transit travel.
> >
> > bedding might or might not be cleaned out, depended upon the
> > condition of
> > bedding. If it was dry it did not need to cleaned out. But if the
> > cattle had
> > loose bowels or there was lots of blown in snow or rain causing the
> > bedding
> > to get wet, it would be replaced. This was determined on site, there
> > was no
> > hard and fast rule. The station man might make determination.
> >
> > At Belle Plaine they reused same cars, left them on siding, shoved
> > done the
> > siding if other cars had to be loaded or unloaded. In Belle Plaine
> > it seldom
> > happened that more than one stock train was there at the same time.
> >
> > Shipping hogs in winter, they would line the car with rosen like
> > paper, like
> > cardboard, nailed sheets over every other spacing, bedded pretty
> > deep with
> > hay, hogs would lay down, nestle in and get out of the wind
> >
> > sheep and cattle less of a concern as they had hair or wool.
> >
> > Real concern in winter was the stress weather put on the animals. A
> > car of
> > cattle sitting on a siding, could be put through lot of stress
> > during a
> > storm. Wind and snow could cause lots of stress and other problems.
> >
> > At Belle Plaine the local crew did switching, would pick up cattle
> > put then
> > on main line for pickup by through train. Typically shipped on
> > Sunday, for
> > arrival in Chicago on Monday. Sometimes waited till Friday for
> > better prices
> > on the Chicago market.
> >
> > cattle arrived in Chicago, Emil would top the market, ie get a
> > better price
> > than others got.
> >
> > The trick, you didn?t really feed and water upon arrival, buyer
> > looking to
> > not buy water, paid better price for thirsty cattle, got more per
> > pound,
> > knowing they got meat and not water.
> >
> > commission buyer - usually talk to commission man before leaving
> town,
> >
> > but some cattle would not be consigned, upon arrival to Chicago
> > might be
> > some confusion at the stockyards, ie short handed, or during a big
> > run, they
> > literally ran out of holding pens, etc. Even strikes.
> >
> > sometimes cattle shippers would over load system by shipping all at
> > the same
> > time because commission man was calling everyone to ship during what
> > was
> > thought to be a low time.
> >
> > drovers catered to old guys, regular sellers, folks with reputation,
> > those
> > cattle were bought first, if you were at bottom of pile, ie someone
> > who only
> > shipped cattle once a year, or only had a few cows to sell, you
> > might not
> > get price, might not even get them sold.
> >
> > Warmer months, livestock dead in cars,
> >
> > Chicago had big horses, ie draft horses at 1800-2000lbs. used to
> > drag carts
> > about and to drag dead livestock out of the cars.
> >
> > In those days hogs could weigh over 600lbs. Many farmers would feed
> > them to
> > 500+ lbs. A dead hog that size on it?s side looked just liked a dead
> > steer.
> >
> > If animals were not sold upon arrival at Chicago, the owner had to
> pay
> > yardage, ie pay for pen, feed, etc.
> >
> > did not have sale barns in early years, Belle Plaine built the sale
> > barn in
> > 1936, Tama?s sale barn was built after that.
> >
> > Salebarns were for the small guy, no big bunches, the fellow with
> > 2-4 cows
> > used sale barns
> >
> > local slaughter houses also did a lot of buying at the local
> > salebarns. IE
> > plants in Iowa.
> >
> > At feed and rest station:
> >
> > Were cattle put back in same cars? Tried too, so you wouldn?t spread
> > diseases. Disease was a big concern. Would Quarantine disease.
> > Something
> > called shipping fever, cattle in transit, weakened
> >
> > got lot of feeder calves from a ranch at Marva, Texas
> >
> > cattle from south came in the spring
> >
> > cattle from west came in the fall
> >
> > had to be careful with cattle from west, especially from high
> altitude
> > areas. They could get brisket disease, ie hearts would swell cause
> > other
> > problems
> >
> > cattle to Belle Plaine usually from Sand Hills area, Hwy #20,
> > Valentine NEB,
> >
> > through billing cattle would be loaded back upon the same railroad
> > cars, use
> > the same bill of freight, through billing, had to be loaded back in
> > within
> > certain time period, ie less than 24 hours
> >
> > done in 1946 and earlier. Feeder cattle went to final designation
> > after stop
> > for water and feed, ie taken off at Tama for feed/rest, buyers would
> > come
> > and look at cattle, if desired were shipped on to final destination,
> > ie
> > Belle Plaine because in Belle Plaine buyers wanted the animals.
> > Shippers
> > could make one additional move on same billing.
> >
> > Out west if railroad went through a ranch, the ranch often had its
> own
> > stockyard and loading chutes right on ranch. Neighboring ranches
> > would use
> > it as well, was often closer than going to town.
> >
> > trailer car, extra car not clear full, ie ½ load. Divide with
> > partition and
> > put cattle one side, horses on other side, to ship full car
> >
> > ride train caboose to Chicago, playing cards around pot belly stove.
> > In
> > Chicago some would pick up checks, cash it, and lose all his money
> > playing
> > cards with the card sharks on the ride back home.
> >
> > cattle from west ? Of drovers caboose
> >
> > not always riders with animals, ie feeder cattle
> >
> > riders went with animals to market, sometimes farmer or feeder would
> > go with
> > his own cattle, not take a change of trusting someone else to do the
> > selling. They would ride caboose in, passenger train back
> >
> > Certain Chicago producers were endorsed by the Farm Bureau
> >
> > Some buyers or commission men would procure feeder cattle via Farm
> > Bureau.
> >
> > in New Mexico 40 acres to cow/calf in Iowa 1 acre per cow/calf
> >
> > exotic breeds were larger cows, created a problem as they needed
> more
> > feed/roughage,
> >
> > 1400lb cows more forage, have to travel further to get the same
> > amount of
> > feed/forage in a day.
> >
> > bigger cow spends more time at water hole, drinks more water,
> >
> > out west in dry lands, only got water once a day
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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