The CZ cars showed up a lot on the Ak-Sar-Ben - on the consist sheets
the BRHS put out the 16 Sects, 10-6's and the dome-obs' show up each
time - and they were from all of the consortium roads. Which is why
the 3rd order of cars were ordered and placed in service.
For instance: 7/17/1955 CB&Q 3 AK-SAR-BEN Zephyr at Burlington, IA
9928A E7A
9925A E7A
REX 6339 Express Reefer
NYC 8187 HW Baggage
1002 BA-19 Baggage 4521
MHW SSS 60 seat coach
NP 308 4-4-4 Dome Sleeper
D&RGW 1132 SILVER GORGE 10-6
PRR 8449 SILVER RAPIDS 10-6
402 SILVER CEDAR 16 Sects
WP 882 SILVER PLANET Dome-Obs
1496 BA-10 HW Baggage
2339 MA-11 HW RPO
As for the 10-6's for the trans-con slot, the original idea was to
use Silver Rapids & a WP sleeper leased by the NYC. And it wasn't
supposed to be an every day service. The NYC occasionally didn't
have the car (& the PRR less so) so there were times that there were
the foreign 10-6 in that slot - BUT, before 1952, this was very
frowned upon as the original contract specifically stated that there
would be no such cars. After 1952, when they finally figured out
that they might be losing business, especially in summer and in the
holiday seasons, they did allow foreign cars, and even leased the C&O
10-6's (identical in terms of original to the D&RGW Prospector
5-6-5's and the NKP 10-6's, along with the un-corrugated sided B&O &
IC cars from the same order).
In most photos where a foreign car is shown other than a PRR or NYC
car before 1958 and any car after that date, it is typically a result
of a tour group, special movement or a very last minute replacement
(where the Q couldn't find a car from their own fleet). If it is a
sleeper in back of the baggage, it is a dorm and the dorm-lounge-dome
is then usually been replaced on the run by one of the KCZ cars that
didn't have adequate space. If the foreign cars are coaches, they
too would be right behind the baggage (and behind the dorm-sleeper if
needed), and again would be a tour or special movement.
One thing that I'm still working out is the blinds on the BLI
cars. It seems like a nit kind of thing - but when I looked at the
10-6 it struck me like a whack between the eyes. If you'd ridden the
train a lot or spent days watching it go by, you'd understand
it. It's especially troubling on the aisle side of the rooms. The
porters were instructed (and it's in the instruction books of the
conductors and porters) to keep these blinds at a specific height
during the day and at night. Now, the CZ cars were built such that
the aisle windows were opposite the doors of the rooms, so that you
could see out both the door and the room window. Which is why the
blinds are like that - if someone were troubled by the sun, you
closed the door (if the sun were at any angle that the blinds would
take care of it and the door wouldn't have to be closed, they's
either be fully closed or left alone anyway due to the geometry). So
those blinds usually weren't moved. It's a small thing - unless you
lived on the racetrack and saw train after train go by and one thing
that got burned into your head was the blinds (because there was no
paint scheme - although the EB & NCL has also been burned there). On
every Q train. Funny what little things stick with you.
At 08:20 AM 11/29/2005, you wrote:
>Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 02:30:10 EST
> From: Aeolus3@aol.com
>Subject: Re: ??? re BroadwayLimited CZ cars
>
>The BLI CZ cars are plated. With the ownership letter boards on the car ends,
>this makes the cars other than the 6-5 Pullmans, makes the cars un prototype
>for any other of the Burlington Budd cars. The Budd built 6-5 Pullmans you'd
>have to change the lettering of the owner name boards to "Pullman" that would
>make them prototype for the DZ 5-6 Pullmans such as Silver Pelican. Of course
>that's the 56 DZ.
>
>I understand the undecorated cars are plated with all the letter boards not
>named. Also the name boards are different lengths. The "CZ" name boards are
>molded on the car body, which makes them not usable for the Rio
>Grande Zephyr. I
>would have thought BLI would have considered this since the RGZ didn't carry
>the big letter boards. Although I have seen shots of the early RGZ
>with the big
>letterboards.
>
>If BLI on the undec cars would include a blank panel, fluted but flush to the
>car side, for the ownership letter boards of the CZ cars, thus the Baggage
>Car and Diner would be prototype for baggage cars Silver Treasure (after the
>boiler was removed), Argo and Olympus and Diners Silver Salver and
>Silver Feast
>(47 TCZ Diners).
>
>Plug the extra three windows on the isle side of the double bedroom on the
>10-6 Pullmans and you could do prototype, the 1952 Budd built 10-6
>Pullmans.. The
>two 10-6 Pullmans the Burlington added to the CZ pool in 1952 Silver Crag and
>Silver Chasm also didn't have the three extra windows on the double bedroom
>isle.
>
>Of course the CZ 10-6's were used in other trains, fully lettered for the CZ.
>With the new head end equipment from Walthers, Athearn, the 6100 HW Coaches
>from Branchline, yes they're off by one window but look great, and extra 10-6
>Pullmans from your CZ pool, one could put together a really fine Aksarben,
>American Royal Zephyr, or the Blackhawk. I don't know how often it
>was used on
>the Aksarben but the CZ Observation did show up. In Chicago a CZ
>train set laid
>over for 24 hours. Today's #18 would become #17 tomorrow. Thus CZ cars could
>make a KC CHI turn and be back in the CZ 24 hours later.
>
>Walthers has announced a postwar smooth side 10-6 Pullman, built by Pullman
>Standard. From the drawings if appears to be prototype for the PRR. P Company
>liked those small windows and they showed up in a number of the post war PS
>build cars. Also this same 10-6 was lettered for the L&N and I'm
>sure there are
>other railroads as well. Here's a perfect "extra" Pullman to put in the CZ.
>Also Walthers produced a PS coach with stainless steel below the window band.
>Again here's a car you can use in the CZ in the DRG&W paint. Just remember to
>place the car behind the baggage since foreign cars didn't have the
>CZ train PA
>system wiring. Now with the odd Pullman in front of the Observation.
>
>Since the railroad sold space and not a specific car in the CZ with the one
>exception of the Drawing Room in the Observation, thus a passenger could have
>space in Silver Rapids and not be in the NYC-Oakland Pullman. As
>close as I can
>estimate it would take a single 10-6 Pullman in the through service appox 10
>days to make the full round trip from Chicago - Oakland, Oakland - NYC, and
>then NYC - Chicago to start the through car pool all over again. It
>was a daily
>service. Thus many foreign 10-6's showed up in this service which lasted from
>1949-1958, when Silver Rapids returned to the PRR. Silver Rapids
>still had the
>full skirting well into the PC era. Today Silver Rapids is privately owned.
>In my CZ I sometimes run a NYC 10-6, PRR 10-5, or a C&O 10-6. Just
>for trivia,
>Silver Rapids got her name from Silver (CZ) and Rapids (PRR 10-6's were
>"something" Rapids).
>
>Loren Johnson
Bob Webber
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