Re: [CBQ] Prophetstown IL

["Leo Phillipp via groups.io" <qutlx1=aol.com@groups.io>]



Lucas,

I delayed answering your question as to how long the wayfreight might take to switch industries at Prophetstown while I thought about it a bit,studied your track diagram from the Sanborn map,etc. Keep in mind the business in town might have one to two cars on hand. The coal, bulk oil distributors and grain elevators were very seasonal shippers/consignees.

First thanks to Bill Hirt I have a copy of the Qs 1953 LCL schedule that shows P-Town(that’s how we referred to it) as served by a Burlington truck line truck so there wouldn’t be any LCL car in that train with its associated work.

I’ve also looked at track alignment charts from 1930s and 1950s.

It’s my humble,first hand experienced opinion(i did work wayfreights for a few years) that the wayfreight could easily handle the pulling and spotting of cars at customers in P-Town most days of the year in less than a half hour,probably less. In the busier fall season of Oct/Nov and dead of winter (what with sweeping and digging out switches) they might be there an hour. Again probably less. The switches at each end of town made switching easier as you weren’t faced with dropping cars. These times do not include time spent eating if the crew chose to go over town to a restaurant. I can tell you one of the crews made it a point to eat at P-town in the 1970s.

The Q’s delay report form had far more details than the BN’s. The Q form had headings for station work and time spent eating and several others. So the Condr might,for example show 20” station work and an hour for eating.

Leo Phillipp

On Mar 17, 2025, at 11:35 PM, qutlx1 <qutlx1@aol.com> wrote:

Lucas,

Wayfrieght times shown in timetables are

For info. Only. About the  only time that is near to fact would be departure from Mendota. After that work and traffic on the line govern. It was routine to be many hours later than times shown in the TT. 

Yes the wayfreight “turns” at Denrock. It would be more or less the same train but there would be cars left and picked up at Denrock most likely. The wayfreight has to “clear” (be out of the

Way of) 69/64. There’s a whole bunch of rules around that. That’s where a lot of head ons happened when one crew or another misread a train order or didn’t comply with the rules about clearing a scheduled train properly.

As to wheat and soybeans if your modeling the early 50s don’t go overboard on either. Illinois was not huge on wheat. Soybeans were then in their infancy. 

There were other small grains like oats and rye, etc used as rotation crops. But corn was king. But also remember that corn yields in the 1950s were less than half of today. The rows were on wider centers and seeds were planted farther apart in each row. Also keep in mind the size and capacity of those small country elevators. Portions of every farm were in hay production, animals eat more than just corn.

69/64 was a hotshot so it had to have power to get over the road. The steam locos were running out their boiler/inspection hours and putting them on 69/64 saved a diesel for the mainliners. Someday the article will be in the BRHS Bulletin. No prediction as to when .

A box car will get loaded or unloaded faster than a tank car. Look up demurrage rules on RR owned cars vs none on private cars (any car with an X the end of the reporting mark)and you’ll get a start on understanding another very important and complicated aspect of the RR business. I don’t know how much faith I would put in AI to get RR car usage accurate in a small branch line town. These industries are small with limited capacity. A tank car would more than fill a Small distributors tank for a given product. Car could be there a week.

Coal can be unloaded quickly depending on whether the dealer is storing It on the ground or in a shed. Look up Barber Greene coal elevators. Before them it was human muscles with shovels.

They were referred to as “coal hurlers” as that’s what they did. Throw shovelfuls of coal into the shed. There’s actually to this day a coal shed at a former elevator site about 3 or 4 miles from my house that was once served by the Fox & Illinois Union RR. Oh, don’t get me started on that history.

But you can google it.

You can probably learn the annual shipment rate for a country elevator on google or podcasts that I’ll bet will be more accurate than AI. 

Your overall guiding principle should be small town branch line and airfreight railroading. My favorite and pretty much all gone.

Leo

On Mar 17, 2025, at 10:04 PM, Lucas Barnlund via groups.io <lbarnlund=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:



Ken Martin and Richard Gortowski, thanks for the info on the depot.

 

Leo Phillips,

Wow, what a reply. Thank you. You answered a lot of questions... and created a lot more. I have been asking Greg Koon tons of questions and he has been doing a great job and answering or pointing me in the right direction for the answer.  

 

I looked and had to go back to the 1930's to find the dedicated passenger trains.

 

I am looking forward to reading your article on 69/64 the "moonlight job", when should it be published and where?

 

I noticed that the mixed train is westbound #91 arrives Ptown at 1:35 pm then goes to Denrock. #92 then starts at Denrock and is back in Ptown at 3:00 pm. Would this be the same train or a totally different train?

 

I have also noticed the westbound and eastbound trains 69/64 and 91/92 seems really tight on time according to the Time Table. How did any industries get switched with such a tight timeframe with the average speed per train at 14.9-24.3 MPH over the line according to the time table. How long would it actually take to switch industries in Ptown on a busy day?

 

I cannot imagine an O5 or S4 on this line with some cars behind it. The engine seems like it would be overkill. I would think a Consolidated or Mikado would be appropriate on the line. 

 

Thank you for the rundown on Coal, Grain, Lumber, Oil, Elevator deliveries. It never dawned on me that fertilizer wouldn't be delivered, just the farm fertilizer used. 

 

How long would it take one of the oil industries to unload a tank car into its tanks? 1-2 days. How long would it take to unload a boxcar of lumber or a load of coal? 

 

I will contact the Prophetstown Historical society to see if it can give me any information on Eclipse Lawn Mower company rail traffic.

 

Recently, I have used ChatGBT to help me estimate the average number of cars that might be delivered in a year to Ptown for Oil, Lumber, Coal. Also gave me estimates for how many 40' boxcars I would need for outbound Corn, Soybeans and Wheat. Gives me some data to work out some type of switching schedule. 

 

Thank you all for your help and information. 

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