Leo,
I don't remember a lot of the agreement details, but I know I caught the CZ off the Aurora passenger extra list and worked CUS-Burlington-CUS. Why wouldn't that vacancy have been protected out of Galesburg?
Worked the Quincy train once to Galesburg, also. Again off X list, out of CUS. Might have been a WIU special.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: qutlx1@aol.com
To: cbq@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 11:46:10 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Fwd: [CBQ] Clairification re assigned and pooled W/C's
Pete you caught me at the computer as the nightly news is boring so here's an almost instant response.
This gets complicated and lengthy so get comfortable and do keep in mind I am writing w/o going downstairs to research in the files. Just shooting from memory. If I get something messed up Bud can correct any mistakes I make.
1) The Aurora lodge (Aurora Div) covered everything from Lavergne just outside Cicero to Savanna and to Galesburg with all branch lines coming off them. Well technically at Savanna the division ended at Plum Creek a couple miles east where the Galesburg line joined the C&I.The "mainline pool" from Cicero to Galesburg was manned by Aurora men based at Galesburg with their own lodge and officers,etc. Aurora men in the Aurora zone at the Galesburg based lodge were on the same seniority roster as the men at the Aurora lodge. A man hired at either location carried one seniority date and could work at either location or any in between if his seniority was high enough. Rarely did an Aurora/Aurora man go to Galesburg but fairly often an Aurora man based at Galesburg would come to Aurora to work when the mainline pool was reduced in an economic downturn. For locals on the mainline the general committee had set Mendota as the dividing line on the mainline. I.E. a local starting out of Mendota and working west was manned by the Aurora men in Galesburg. Working east from Mendota was Aurora/Aurora men. The exception was the branch from Zearing to Streator(the old IV&N) which was Aurora/Aurora territory. But there was an exception (for a while) to the exception in that a local ran out of Galesburg with a sidetrip to LaSalle that was manned by Aurora men from Galesburg. And for a while there was a Eola to Galesburg wayfreight manned by Aurora/Aurora.
The Chicago division/lodge had everything east of LaVergne but the Aurora men operated on the 7 miles of mainline to CUS. See previous discussion about prior right Chicago men on passenger.
The line from Galesburg to Savanna was Galesburg lodge men who had their own lodge (Bud Linroth was the local chairman for many years). This lodge also went to Peoria,Quincy,etc, This lodge also had the line from Sterling to Denrock. Aurora rights covered only Mendota to Denrock so when we ran Denrock-Savanna miles were recorded and from time to time a Galesburg lodge man came to Aurora and worked the "Around the horn" wayfreight until he had equalized the miles Aurora men had run on Galesburg lines. Then he went home.
If you can find a track alignment book for the Aurora Division the inside cover show this with a map very well.
2) Passenger service: To generalize there was a Nothern Pool and a mainline pool. Once you could hold passenger you were on a turn in one pool or the other. You worked various trains over the month so that everyone got a chance to work the cream and some of the less desirable Some turns were better than others with better hours or better days off,etc. You really needed a calendar to know which train on which day your turn was working. Within the Northern pool there was a "fast pool" and a "slow pool" which is pretty self explanatory as the fast pool had more of the preferred runs. There were also regular jobs that worked the same runs each day, generally the locals. There was also a baggagemens pool similar to the trainmans/Condrs that only worked baggage jobs.
Over the decades the pool would change as trains were combined, added or taken off.
The passenger extra list was totally crazy as you would fill in for a man on say his Northern turn and on the way back to Chicago you would get a message to protect a turn leaving CUS on the mainline upon arrival there. Then when coming back from Galesburg, Burlington or Ottumwa you might get another message to protect another job. You literally could go for days w/o getting home. You got your rest at the away terminal.
This leads to your question about step off. This gets absolutely convoluted and complicated. It's a big file in the records. There was the Aurora step off where a man deadheading into CUS would relieve his counterpart eastbound on the Aurora platform and "work" in for him. Next day the other guy would return the favor. More on this in a bit.
As to where passenger train crews changed it really depended on the job and decades. Going north everyone came and went from Savanna. Going west basically the locals or jobs going to Quincy changed at Galesburg. The CZ/DZ train crews changed at Burlington. For a while they went to Ottumwa,but this didn't last too long. On the jobs working thru beyond Galesburg the miles were equalized with Ottumwa by assigning certain positions to Ottumwa men.
Now here's where it gets real complicated. The jobs were based out of Chicago but many of the men working these jobs were Aurora men living in Galesburg in the Aurora lodge there.
In fact from time to time over the decades the two Aurora lodges along with the East Ottumwa lodge would get into a type of family feud over how many jobs should belong to each lodge. So the general committee would review each sides arguments and then make a ruling as to the number of positions assigned to each lodge.
For the Galesburg based Aurora men to avoid deadheading to Chicago to protect their turn and then deadheading home there was a step off at Galesburg just like at Aurora. These were authorized by local agreements with local mgmt. A step off could be worked on a job running only to Galesburg and in essence a man would be working his day off for his counterpart, who did likewise tomorrow for him. It gave them more time at home and no deadhead commutes.
3) Pool and assigned waycars at the same time. Sure it happened. I think what you are describing are two separate pools in the same seniority district where one pool has changed to pooled waycars and the other did not. This was the case for several years where the Aurora men at Galesburg had pooled waycars as well as the La Crosse division men working into Savanna. At Cicero and Savanna the yard crews would have to keep the C&I waycars separate from the pooled waycars. It was easy as for the most part the pool cars were new and the assigned were the old wood ones.
Let me know if you still have questions after this lengthy dissertation.
Leo Phillipp
Pete you caught me at the computer as the nightly news is boring so here's an almost instant response.
This gets complicated and lengthy so get comfortable and do keep in mind I am writing w/o going downstairs to research in the files. Just shooting from memory. If I get something messed up Bud can correct any mistakes I make.
1) The Aurora lodge (Aurora Div) covered everything from Lavergne just outside Cicero to Savanna and to Galesburg with all branch lines coming off them. Well technically at Savanna the division ended at Plum Creek a couple miles east where the Galesburg line joined the C&I.The "mainline pool" from Cicero to Galesburg was manned by Aurora men based at Galesburg with their own lodge and officers,etc. Aurora men in the Aurora zone at the Galesburg based lodge were on the same seniority roster as the men at the Aurora lodge. A man hired at either location carried one seniority date and could work at either location or any in between if his seniority was high enough. Rarely did an Aurora/Aurora man go to Galesburg but fairly often an Aurora man based at Galesburg would come to Aurora to work when the mainline pool was reduced in an economic downturn. For locals on the mainline the general committee had set Mendota as the dividing line on the mainline. I.E. a local starting out of Mendota and working west was manned by the Aurora men in Galesburg. Working east from Mendota was Aurora/Aurora men. The exception was the branch from Zearing to Streator(the old IV&N) which was Aurora/Aurora territory. But there was an exception (for a while) to the exception in that a local ran out of Galesburg with a sidetrip to LaSalle that was manned by Aurora men from Galesburg. And for a while there was a Eola to Galesburg wayfreight manned by Aurora/Aurora.
The Chicago division/lodge had everything east of LaVergne but the Aurora men operated on the 7 miles of mainline to CUS. See previous discussion about prior right Chicago men on passenger.
The line from Galesburg to Savanna was Galesburg lodge men who had their own lodge (Bud Linroth was the local chairman for many years). This lodge also went to Peoria,Quincy,etc, This lodge also had the line from Sterling to Denrock. Aurora rights covered only Mendota to Denrock so when we ran Denrock-Savanna miles were recorded and from time to time a Galesburg lodge man came to Aurora and worked the "Around the horn" wayfreight until he had equalized the miles Aurora men had run on Galesburg lines. Then he went home.
If you can find a track alignment book for the Aurora Division the inside cover show this with a map very well.
2) Passenger service: To generalize there was a Nothern Pool and a mainline pool. Once you could hold passenger you were on a turn in one pool or the other. You worked various trains over the month so that everyone got a chance to work the cream and some of the less desirable Some turns were better than others with better hours or better days off,etc. You really needed a calendar to know which train on which day your turn was working. Within the Northern pool there was a "fast pool" and a "slow pool" which is pretty self explanatory as the fast pool had more of the preferred runs. There were also regular jobs that worked the same runs each day, generally the locals. There was also a baggagemens pool similar to the trainmans/Condrs that only worked baggage jobs.
Over the decades the pool would change as trains were combined, added or taken off.
The passenger extra list was totally crazy as you would fill in for a man on say his Northern turn and on the way back to Chicago you would get a message to protect a turn leaving CUS on the mainline upon arrival there. Then when coming back from Galesburg, Burlington or Ottumwa you might get another message to protect another job. You literally could go for days w/o getting home. You got your rest at the away terminal.
This leads to your question about step off. This gets absolutely convoluted and complicated. It's a big file in the records. There was the Aurora step off where a man deadheading into CUS would relieve his counterpart eastbound on the Aurora platform and "work" in for him. Next day the other guy would return the favor. More on this in a bit.
As to where passenger train crews changed it really depended on the job and decades. Going north everyone came and went from Savanna. Going west basically the locals or jobs going to Quincy changed at Galesburg. The CZ/DZ train crews changed at Burlington. For a while they went to Ottumwa,but this didn't last too long. On the jobs working thru beyond Galesburg the miles were equalized with Ottumwa by assigning certain positions to Ottumwa men.
Now here's where it gets real complicated. The jobs were based out of Chicago but many of the men working these jobs were Aurora men living in Galesburg in the Aurora lodge there.
In fact from time to time over the decades the two Aurora lodges along with the East Ottumwa lodge would get into a type of family feud over how many jobs should belong to each lodge. So the general committee would review each sides arguments and then make a ruling as to the number of positions assigned to each lodge.
For the Galesburg based Aurora men to avoid deadheading to Chicago to protect their turn and then deadheading home there was a step off at Galesburg just like at Aurora. These were authorized by local agreements with local mgmt. A step off could be worked on a job running only to Galesburg and in essence a man would be working his day off for his counterpart, who did likewise tomorrow for him. It gave them more time at home and no deadhead commutes.
3) Pool and assigned waycars at the same time. Sure it happened. I think what you are describing are two separate pools in the same seniority district where one pool has changed to pooled waycars and the other did not. This was the case for several years where the Aurora men at Galesburg had pooled waycars as well as the La Crosse division men working into Savanna. At Cicero and Savanna the yard crews would have to keep the C&I waycars separate from the pooled waycars. It was easy as for the most part the pool cars were new and the assigned were the old wood ones.
Let me know if you still have questions after this lengthy dissertation.
Leo Phillipp