At 07:53 AM 11/29/2007, you wrote:
(List) A lot of the questions may appear to be specific to WP or
D&RGW, but they also appeared on the Q (on the Exposition Flyer
Michal, as I said, I am not one who knows anything about what's
availablein N scale, so with that in mind:
I can't really help you on the kit bashing, as I don't know what's
available. I have never seen a consist or photo with a TCZ - or any
other non-CZ or home built CB&Q dome coach on the Expo or CZ. The
only other domes that showed up were the ex C&O domes that typically
ran on the D&RGW's Royal Gorge - they did show up and came into
Chicago, though often. The ONLY domes shown on the Expo in consist
and in photos are the CB&Q built domes and the CZ domes. Remember
that the CZ was not the premier train on the Q and if a choice had to
be made between putting a TCZ dome on the CZ or the TCZ, it would be
on the TCZ. The only real "spare" domes (until 1952) were the home built ones.
If a CZ car was bad ordered, it really depended on where the car was
bad-ordered. If in Chicago or Oakland, there were other options from
the CZ pool. If in Denver (or anywhere else in between), they would
typically remove the car and continue. If was not always necessary
to replace a car, except on the busiest of seasons. Tours and
charters were common however.
Kitbashing HW Pullmans is going to depend on your tolerance for
errors. There were three basic periods of steel HW Pullmans, and
each one had differences in the side plate design, the rivet
patterns, and the ends. Too, the windows were also different
depending on the era built or rebuilt. So, taking a 10-1-2 and
chopping it up for a 16 section (as one example of needed Expo cars)
is not as simple as taking the sections from two 10-1-2's and
rearranging them for the 16 section. But, all is a compromise, and
it depends on where your tolerance for that lies. The 16 section cars
are one of the more difficult to find, especially the non-A/C
version. But needed for many eras of the Expo. The TOWER cars did
show up on the Expo, but rarely. TOWER cars are rebuilts, not just
from the skirting and roof, but the whole car was rebuilt from
earlier ones (and that means different rivet patterns and ends).
While you might know something about DRGW cars, none of the ones you
indicated are correct for D&RGW. They all must be modified - in N or
HO. Those are C&O versions, not D&RGW versions. The 1910 Pullman
coaches also had a lot of variance in them, and the D&RGW rebuilt
them specifically for Expo service. There is nothing on the market
like them. One of them was involved in the Naperville wreck, so they
did come out on the CB&Q. The original version of the 1910 coaches
rarely were assigned to the Expo - by the 1940s most had been
rebuilt, and several a couple of times. Two were rebuilt into CANON
obs, one to a business car, another to a company car, several to
"modern coaches", more to cafe coaches, etc.
The WP coaches were longer than the typical Harriman car, but there
were Harriman cars that long as well. I have no idea what is
available in N scale so can't really comment on kitbashing.
The Advanced Expo was on the D&RGW, though for a shorter time period
- the train morphed into the 3 iteration of the Prospector.
The PRR Budd 10-6 (SILVER RAPIDS) was assigned to the CZ until
1957. Other PRR and NYC cars could be seen in the CZ as part of the
"Transcon" sleeper fleet. BUT, between 1949 and 1952, such cars were
supposed to be stainless. That car would be directly ahead of the Dome Obs.
I have not seen a photo or consist with SILVER SPOON in the
train. Doesn't say it didn't happen, but there were other diners
that were designated as being CZ alternates - SPOON was not one.
I can't tell you what N scale cars are available, Charlie has to an
extent (with regard to foreign cars on the CZ). There were a lot of
varied cars, and I did a list f available HO cars in the
Prospector. Which ones have N scale models, I can't say. ;
>Yes I'm avare of all that! As for location, I intend to model the Expo as
>appeared on the DRGW portion of the ride. As for the rest, my approach is
>first to determine, what models are available and which cars are most easy
>to kitbash and then determine which consist (time period, year season and
>the like) can be modeled by those cars.
>
>Thanks but note that I'm avare of all that and my CZ question was just an
>aside. The bottom line was which Budd cars from the old Budd Kato sets I
>need to keep and which to part with because of no use for Expo/CZ on DRGW.
>
>..or emergency substitution when particular CZ car was badordered. Exactly
>that I had on mind.
>
>Thanks, but what about the Q Budd 1947 dome coaches (similar to CZ ones but
>different window pattern)?
>(As for CZ I do mean case of emergency)
>
>As for HW Pullman sleepers, everything I would like to know is which types
>were assigned to (which I hope to find in Burlington Bulletin #42 on the
>Expo). It's my understanding many plans of different Pullman HW sleepers can
>downloaded somewhere in the web. As for Nscale, the only available is the
>12-1 by RivaRossi and then some others by Pecos River Brass, very hard to
>get. But to kitbash RR 12-1 into something else by just transplanting and
>mixing sections of its carsides up is not that difficult. There might be
>also new models by MicroTrains in near future.....
> One question though: did appear the very distinctive semi-skirted
>betterment Tower series 8-3-1s on Expo or CZ?
>
>Unlike Q and WP cars I know next to nothing about (that's the reason I
>asked ;-), I'm familiar with DRGW rolling stock and have some ideas how to
>kitbash any of DRGW cars already - see my other e-mail - so no issue there
>;-)
>
>Yes, that was my original point: How to model (kitbash perhabs) the Q & WP
>cars which appeared on the D&RGW portion of the Expo ride.
>
>Sorry for the dumb question: did the Advanced Expo appear on DRGW rails as
>well, or was that solely the Q thing?
>
>Any of the NR or GN ones available in Nscale? (Charlie, are you listening?)
>It's also my understanding the PRR Budd 10-6 might be sometimes substituted
>by PRR maroon PS (or ACF) 10-6. Right/wrong?
>
> > rarely non-CZ (or their near clones) diners,
>
>Like the Silver Spoon?
>
> > VERY rarely
> > non-CZ domes obs - after 1952 there were a couple used as "spares"
>
>What about (non-dome) obs. Silver Fountain - before 1952?
>
> > (in reality making a lot of miles on the Q in various
> > routes). Models? Charlie would have to address it (or someone else
> > familiar with N scale).
> >
> > A host of non-CB&Q cars could also be seen on the CZ - again,
> > typically in charter, tour or special service.
>
>Any of them available in Nscale? (Charlie?) The only one I'm avare of so
>far is the PS C&O 10-6 sleeper...
>Well, my last question should be read as well: Which prototypes (of non-Q
>cars available in Nscale) did appear on CZ in charter, tour or special
>service?
>
>Many thanks again for very comprehensive reply!
>
>Michal B.
>
>
>
>Messages in this topic (2)
Bob Webber
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